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Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

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Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#331

Post by Iwan-Zotow »

m463 wrote: post #309
giobox wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a fair take, and I've had similar thoughts too. However, one thing computer industry people don't seem to get is how much the idea of Apple owning the "dials" on the instrument cluster as shown in the keynote this year will likely go down like a cup of cold sick at most European auto makers. In many cases the designs or colors used in the dial faces have decades of brand history behind them. Regardles…

I can't help but compare to what happened with the wireless carriers with their crippled "smart" phones before steve jobs convinced AT&T to take the iPhone 1.

and that relegated ATT/TM/Sprint into pure utilities, with little intrinsic value

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#332

Post by jen20 »

ptmcc wrote: post #214
cercatrova wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who buys cars for their HUD? I buy cars for their performance, miles per gallon (or electric equivalent), brand value, etc.

Cabin usability and ergonomics are a huge selling point. CarPlay & HUDs are just one piece of that, but it a critical piece of the overall usability experience. Getting into a car that has a pre-CarPlay infotainment system feels like stepping back decades in time even though the car may only be a few years old. Slow, unresponsive, buggy, and just extremely unpleasant and unnatural to use. IMO, cars that predate scree…

The exception to this is ~2009 era BMWs with professional Nav, which feels just as snappy and good as my 2022 replacement for it. My large survey of a decade of rental cars suggests that almost nothing else has a screen that isn’t blurry.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#333

Post by Iwan-Zotow »

32995844 wrote: post #103
boringg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean how much of a return can carplay generate on an initial investment of 8 billion and on-going OPEX even if selling to all the manufacturers (which it isn't). I think the point is that it was unlikely their intention to be building solely for carplay and an actual car was a bonus. However if they wind down the hardware play of an actual car this could be something that soften those sunk costs.

Imagine a world where the car manufacturers no longer deal with software development for the vehicle, but instead you have a licensing agreement with Apple where CarPlay is the interface. Similar to Volvo and Google and Android Automotive. A lot of car manufacturers are standardizing around Android in general (see Acura, Volvo, BMW). If Apple could get in with an A-series chip and a custom software stack, then that w…

and how they would differentiate between themselves?

what would be left? colour of the seats?

no new features until Apple decided it's a time

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#334

Post by kevingadd »

tialaramex wrote: post #47

HN seems like the sort of audience who can tell me. This is a serious question: Why would anybody listen to Jean-Louis Gassée? What I see is a career of failures, at Apple, at Be, at Palm, JLG was dealt good hands and some bad hands but played each indifferently. Did I miss something important ?

This criticism doesn't seem like it fits for the actual content of the article. I read through it and didn't see much appeal to authority going on here, it's arguments mixed with opinion and justification/examples.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#335

Post by smaudet »

dhosek wrote: post #231
smm11 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today I learned that people pick a car based on how well it integrates with a cell phone.

The last few times I’ve rented a car it’s had CarPlay and based on those experiences, the next time I buy a car, it must have CarPlay. The experience without it is just so poor (and don’t get me started on how ridiculously bad the experience of pairing bluetooth is in my parent’s car which requires a mix of voice commands and button presses in a completely undiscoverable way).

Eh I've had decent experiences with BT in cars, there are some truly terrible implementations out there though.

My current vehicle doesn't have a functional BT connection, because some idiot put it behind a voice activation (and the mic broke).

I don't think this is the long term future, though - I've seen it work really well, if consumers actually start caring about how to connect to their cars it will work better.

BT will always "just work" - Android Auto and Carplay (never used) are enterprise monstrosities you must sign your soul for in blood that don't work on Thursdays, by comparison.

Yeah yeah I'm sure it does some app thing but I honestly don't car, what with cellphones becoming less reliable over time. I only want to play music in my car, BT works great (once it is setup).

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#336

Post by BluSyn »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #92

I think people focus too much on the actual car in this speculation. What about the service? Apple is really, really good at finding industries full of bullshit (computers in the 80's, mobile phones in the early 2000's) and saying, "okay, here's a slightly better looking product, with fewer features, and no more bullshit." The vehicle market is full of bullshit. Tesla took the same tactic and has knocked it down cons…

It's amazing to me how short-sighted many views on Apple Car are. Service is key.

Apple won't be following the model of the existing car makers. They WILL NOT sell cars direct to consumer. That's the key insight. They will not have showrooms, sales teams, or public service centers. You won't buy their cars directly at all.

Instead, they are going for the end goal: Fully autonomous electric vehicles on-demand. This is the holy grail Tesla and others are going for. I don't know why this isn't obvious to everyone. Most of us are still stuck in the old paradigm. Apple is thinking bigger.

The Apple Car will not have a steering wheel. Complete Level 5 autonomy is not some add-on feature, it is the key enabler that allows the entire product the exist. You don't need public service centers, because Apple will manage their own fleet, manage their own charging infrastructure, etc.

The user experience is simple. You tell Siri I want to go to X by X time. The car arrives, it drops you off. That's the end. No bullshit. Fewer features. Less hassle. And in the end, less cost for the end user. The perfect UX. That's the Apple vision.

Note, this is also Tesla's vision. But the other makers don't see this yet, and as a result will likely be bankrupt within 10-15 years.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#337

Post by dalyons »

astrange wrote: post #326
dalyons wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yup! me too. Thats how i ended up buying a new car instead of a recent second-hand version of the same. Carplay was an absolute non-negotiable must have.

You can just get an older car and replace the radio.

With a large screen capable of CarPlay with enough real estate for navigation etc? Most everything is custom OEM sizing/fit/etc these days , gone are the days of interchangeable single-cd headunits

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#338

Post by BluSyn »

It's amazing to me how short-sighted many views on Apple Car are. Service is key. Apple won't be following the model of the existing car makers. They WILL NOT sell cars direct to consumer. That's the key insight. They will not have showrooms, sales teams, or public service centers. You won't buy their cars directly at all.

Instead, they are going for the end goal: Fully autonomous electric vehicles on-demand. This is the holy grail Tesla and others are going for. I don't know why this isn't obvious to everyone. Most of us are still stuck in the old paradigm. Apple is thinking bigger.

The Apple Car will not have a steering wheel. Complete Level 5 autonomy is not some add-on feature, it is the key enabler that allows the entire product the exist. You don't need public service centers, because Apple will manage their own fleet, manage their own charging infrastructure, etc.

The user experience is simple. You tell Siri I want to go to X by X time. The car arrives, it drops you off. That's the end. No bullshit. Fewer features. Less hassle. And in the end, less cost for the end user. The perfect UX. That's the Apple vision.

Note, this is also Tesla's vision. But the other automakers don't see this yet, and as a result will likely be bankrupt within 10-15 years.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#339

Post by fdye »

robotcapital wrote: post #184
cercatrova wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who buys cars for their HUD? I buy cars for their performance, miles per gallon (or electric equivalent), brand value, etc.

Another anecdote, but this is exactly how I chose my last car. I went to CarMax, filtered by CarPlay integration, and then chose from what was available. In fact, the lack of CarPlay integration is one of the main reasons I didn't consider a Tesla at the time. From basic things like a snappy interface and keeping my podcasts in sync, to suggesting the destination based on the recent maps search I did from my phone on…

Same. My car has Carplay, while my wife's doesn't. Guess which one we discuss selling? A large part of that is the better integration of media. Its hard to go back to a propped up cellphone in a holder with bluetooth, once you've used Carplay.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#340

Post by gnicholas »

fdye wrote: post #26

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradual…

As they've taken over more of the car's UI, I've wondered if the main goal is to bring a Comma-like feature to CarPlay. They could sell a lot more Pro-level iPhones if Apple offered self-driving functionality through CarPlay (but only for the top-tier Pro models).
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