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Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

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Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#311

Post by jononomo »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #264
jononomo wrote: post #102

I wish Toyota would partner with Apple for their internal maps, screen, controls, etc. Toyota seems to have a major problem with intuitive usability (especially for my parents who are in their 80s). Toyota is the largest car company in the world and makes the most reliable vehicles in the world, but they need that extra touch to take them to the next level. Just as I would never by a phone that is not an iPhone, or a…

Apple has already publicly torpedoed their relationship with one major manufacturer (Hyundai/Kia). It's suspected that the same thing has happened less publicly with others like Nissan. They've supposedly been talking with Toyota for a bit, but that's always been a weird choice because Toyota leadership has never fully bought into the idea of electric vehicles and SV development styles, nor are they likely to enjoy b…

I don't really care about electric vehicles either -- I think Toyota has its head on straight in this regard. Hybrids are fantastic. Electric vehicles are an important subset of the market, but Toyota makes vehicles that people rely on in the remotest and roughest parts of the world. If you're running drugs in the mountains of El Salvador or running from rebels in the Congo then you want a Toyota, not a Tesla.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#312

Post by wombat-man »

smoldesu wrote: post #209
boxed wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides them inventing the modern smart phone and revolutionizing an industry? What did the romans ever do for US? :P

All Apple did is commodify the industry, and that business model has proven to be successful for them (same as it was with the iPod). At the end of the day, Apple's contributions to technology aren't chivalric acts of kindness. Their ultimate goal is the same as everyone, running a rent collection business and relying on their services to make consistent income. That's what I think we need to fix. Apple can continue…

The iPod and the iPhone both felt like big steps at the time. For both of those categories Apple led by example and basically forced everyone to try to fit their example.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#313

Post by summerlight »

aetherane wrote: post #125

I don't get why Apple's user experience keeps being repeated as "second to none". It really depends on what you are doing and used to. I personally find Android easier to use than iOS, but maybe I would feel differently if I haven't been using it for a while.

Although iOS is my personal preference over Android, I frequently find myself stuck whenever I tried to go beyond Apple's intended "user journey/flow". It definitely has a trade off.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#314

Post by hinkley »

giobox wrote: post #307
mr_toad wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> auto-makers are in no rush to become just a dumb pipe for apple or google's driving software The cellphone carriers and manufacturers wanted control too. They both used to dictate what you did with your phone. Apple wouldn’t be the Apple we know today if it hadn’t up-ended that market. I can’t really see Apple producing something so good that it makes all other car manufacturers efforts look like crap, but then mos…

One thing that is different regarding cars is that car industry executives have the benefit of hindsight here. Apple was not a trillion dollar business in 2007, in 2022 everyone pays attention. Apple's business model is clear; they would hoover up any profits that might arise via new in car software business models. Apple's success in reducing cellular carriers to dumb pipes will be the cautionary tale every car CEO…

Remember that when the iPhone came out, wireless carriers thought Motorola and Nokia and friends had too much power and they were looking at whether they could get white label phone manufacturers to make phones for them directly.

1990’s and 2000’s mobile in the US was a refugee camp for executives from the Bell Telephone breakup. They were a bunch of dirt bags trying to snap up everything they could, including re-patenting information technology by adding, “but without wires” to existing patents.

The RAZR phone was one of the first times they’d blinked in a while, and Apple showed up in the afterglow.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#315

Post by xattt »

jackson1442 wrote: post #296
giobox wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a fair take, and I've had similar thoughts too. However, one thing computer industry people don't seem to get is how much the idea of Apple owning the "dials" on the instrument cluster as shown in the keynote this year will likely go down like a cup of cold sick at most European auto makers. In many cases the designs or colors used in the dial faces have decades of brand history behind them. Regardles…

I understand where the automakers are coming from and agree that it'll take a while for this to become mainstream because of this. But I can help but laugh a little at this attitude from carmakers. Modern cars have almost all become the poster child for "bad ui" with their addition of touchscreens that almost universally look dated and run poorly.

> Modern cars have almost all become the poster child for "bad ui" with their addition of touchscreens that almost universally look dated and run poorly.

The dashboard dials have little left to be optimized. This is separate from the issue of media controls in the centre console.

Given occasional hiccups with CarPlay itself, intermittent dropouts or UI lag because of a flaky cable or an older phone running the last supported OS is intolerable to something as mission critical as the speedo.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#316

Post by dehugger »

throwaway4220 wrote: post #297
aetherane wrote: post #125

I don't get why Apple's user experience keeps being repeated as "second to none". It really depends on what you are doing and used to. I personally find Android easier to use than iOS, but maybe I would feel differently if I haven't been using it for a while.

I switched over to the dark side (Apple) specifically after I explained to my mom how to pair AirPods. Idk what pairing in android is like now to be fair

You pull down on the screen to show the top cards for various settings and long press Bluetooth to open up options, then press "+Pair Device". Put whatever device you are connecting in pairing mode, then click on it in that list once it shows up. It's pretty self explanatory on the Android side, the issues seem to stem from the implementation of Bluetooth on many other devices.

This is on a Pixel 4.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#317

Post by sangnoir »

lowercased wrote: post #177
waboremo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if Apple is just a tiny little startup looking for VC funds to get into the automotive industry and couldn't possibly compete with Ford. >And for what? Control over the entire driving experience. Just like they are obsessed with controlling the experience of a phone or a tablet and refuse to relegate aspects to partners. >improving them isn't some insurmountable challenge for existing manufacturers You say this bu…

> As if Apple is just a tiny little startup looking for VC funds to get into the automotive industry and couldn't possibly compete with Ford. Ford's market cap is $47b. Apple has more than that free cash on hand. I suspect Apple would 'partner with', then eventually just subsume, an existing card company, if they really wanted to get in to this. You're buying a lot of existing infrastructure (dealers, parts, distribu…

> I suspect Apple would 'partner with', then eventually just subsume, an existing card company

Apple will likely string along a partner while they pull off another Motorola Rokr - i.e. get their feet wet on manufacturing/regulatory environment, mine for information and get the names of key employees to poach for an independent follow up project where the manufacturing is contracted out to Magna Steyr or Foxxcon

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#318

Post by bottlepalm »

scarface74 wrote: post #237
bottlepalm wrote: post #158

It’s funny how Apple CarPlay is basically the Android of the car world. While Tesla is more like IOS/iPhone, controlling both the hardware and software.

Tesla is more like Samsung. Decent hardware and subpar software and user interfaces.

The point is Samsung does not control the Android software. Regardless which car do you think has better software and UI than Tesla?

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#319

Post by hedora »

jolux wrote: post #292
mr_toad wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> auto-makers are in no rush to become just a dumb pipe for apple or google's driving software The cellphone carriers and manufacturers wanted control too. They both used to dictate what you did with your phone. Apple wouldn’t be the Apple we know today if it hadn’t up-ended that market. I can’t really see Apple producing something so good that it makes all other car manufacturers efforts look like crap, but then mos…

CarPlay is already there as far as I'm concerned. Vastly better than the built-in UI of my car (VW), which is filled with ugly graphics, annoying, slow animations, and poor organization.

I think my BMW i3's user interface is superior to CarPlay. Maps have a lower "ink to information ratio", it is snappy, and well-organized.

I dread the day when I end up getting a touch screen car to replace it.

My previous car had a touch screen, and I've used touch screen cars from a dozen vendors. They all suck badly, except Tesla, but they still suck compared to a jog wheel + physical buttons, or even an old fashioned "dumb" car.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#320

Post by bee_rider »

scarface74 wrote: post #242
qaq wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare their sales growth to other car makers. Compare their profit margins to other car makers.

Yes just like every startup. “We had 1% of the market and grew to 2%. We doubled in the last year and are growing much faster than the incumbents”. In what rational world should Tesla have a PE of 20x GM?

If they are priced like a startup and growing like a startup, that might indicate something crazy about how startups are priced, but it isn't unique to Tesla.
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