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Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

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Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#291

Post by bartart »

jedberg wrote: post #139

Apple doesn't get into low margin businesses. They get into an adjacent business. A prime example is TVs. There is no Apple TV set. There is AppleTV, a high margin add on for any TV with HDMI that makes it "just work". They had the chance to buy a cellular carrier, but chose not to, because it's low margin. Instead they make a phone that works on any carrier. Cars are a low margin business. But a car add-on could be…

Aren't products like smartphones, laptops, desktops, etc all low-margin businesses though? At least for every other company in the market. Apple just sticks to the high end?

Porsche sells hundreds of thousands of vehicles per year with something like $20k profit per car on a $90k average selling price. There could be big demand for an innovative Tesla equivalent that didn't have so many build quality issues.

And Foxconn is desperate to get an Apple car contract. Car companies really screwed themselves by outsourcing everything to suppliers (who have much higher profit margins than the car manufacturers at this point) except the internal combustion engine which is losing importance fast. What I am seeing here for Apple is big demand, low barrier to entry, and high profits.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#292

Post by jolux »

mr_toad wrote: post #281
giobox wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a fair take, and I've had similar thoughts too. However, one thing computer industry people don't seem to get is how much the idea of Apple owning the "dials" on the instrument cluster as shown in the keynote this year will likely go down like a cup of cold sick at most European auto makers. In many cases the designs or colors used in the dial faces have decades of brand history behind them. Regardles…

> auto-makers are in no rush to become just a dumb pipe for apple or google's driving software The cellphone carriers and manufacturers wanted control too. They both used to dictate what you did with your phone. Apple wouldn’t be the Apple we know today if it hadn’t up-ended that market. I can’t really see Apple producing something so good that it makes all other car manufacturers efforts look like crap, but then mos…

CarPlay is already there as far as I'm concerned. Vastly better than the built-in UI of my car (VW), which is filled with ugly graphics, annoying, slow animations, and poor organization.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#293

Post by thecompilr »

robotcapital wrote: post #184
cercatrova wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who buys cars for their HUD? I buy cars for their performance, miles per gallon (or electric equivalent), brand value, etc.

Another anecdote, but this is exactly how I chose my last car. I went to CarMax, filtered by CarPlay integration, and then chose from what was available. In fact, the lack of CarPlay integration is one of the main reasons I didn't consider a Tesla at the time. From basic things like a snappy interface and keeping my podcasts in sync, to suggesting the destination based on the recent maps search I did from my phone on…

Yeah, Tesla not having CarPlay the main reason I decided not to get one. Having the car be the continuation of my phone is just so convenient.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#294

Post by solardev »

babyshake wrote: post #290
fdye wrote: post #26

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradual…

> Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. What specifically about Carplay makes it so important, versus the non-Carplay equivalents that other modern cars have?

It doesn't suck as much. OEM car UIs are terrible.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#295

Post by NaOH »

a4isms wrote: post #206
boringg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean how much of a return can carplay generate on an initial investment of 8 billion and on-going OPEX even if selling to all the manufacturers (which it isn't). I think the point is that it was unlikely their intention to be building solely for carplay and an actual car was a bonus. However if they wind down the hardware play of an actual car this could be something that soften those sunk costs.

The five pillars of revenue are: 1. Selling a thing. 2. Selling add-ons and upgrades to a thing. 3. Selling other things to people who bought one of your things. 4. Preventing people who are subscribing to your thing from switching to somebody else's thing. 5. Preventing your competition from commoditizing things and driving prices down. (There aren't really just five, there is no one "theory of everything," it's jus…

>But [CarPlay] could also be #4 "Preventing people who are subscribing to your thing from switching to somebody else's thing."

The more reasons an existing user has to value something they already use, the harder it becomes for the user to switch. With few points of stickiness, it's easy for a user to check if an alternative has, say, similarities to features A and B. But if it's ABCDEFGHIJK, the likelihood of that user leaving drops dramatically. It's a common point that Apple does well iterating on its products, but that iteration goes beyond performance and capabilities into areas of stickiness.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#296

Post by jackson1442 »

giobox wrote: post #248
fdye wrote: post #26

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradual…

I think this is a fair take, and I've had similar thoughts too. However, one thing computer industry people don't seem to get is how much the idea of Apple owning the "dials" on the instrument cluster as shown in the keynote this year will likely go down like a cup of cold sick at most European auto makers. In many cases the designs or colors used in the dial faces have decades of brand history behind them. Regardles…

I understand where the automakers are coming from and agree that it'll take a while for this to become mainstream because of this.

But I can help but laugh a little at this attitude from carmakers. Modern cars have almost all become the poster child for "bad ui" with their addition of touchscreens that almost universally look dated and run poorly.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#297

Post by throwaway4220 »

aetherane wrote: post #125

I don't get why Apple's user experience keeps being repeated as "second to none". It really depends on what you are doing and used to. I personally find Android easier to use than iOS, but maybe I would feel differently if I haven't been using it for a while.

I switched over to the dark side (Apple) specifically after I explained to my mom how to pair AirPods. Idk what pairing in android is like now to be fair

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#298

Post by throwawayForMe2 »

nradov wrote: post #152
fdye wrote: post #26

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradual…

Almost every new car sold in the developed world has a display in the dashboard, but very few actually have a Heads-Up Display (HUD) projected in the driver's line of sight. It's mostly just premium models from GM and BMW that come with this feature. It's a shame that more cars don't have a HUD as it really does help to reduce driver distractions.

Land Rovers also have a nice HUD.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#299

Post by KerrAvon »

smm11 wrote: post #212
robotcapital wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another anecdote, but this is exactly how I chose my last car. I went to CarMax, filtered by CarPlay integration, and then chose from what was available. In fact, the lack of CarPlay integration is one of the main reasons I didn't consider a Tesla at the time. From basic things like a snappy interface and keeping my podcasts in sync, to suggesting the destination based on the recent maps search I did from my phone on…

Today I learned that people pick a car based on how well it integrates with a cell phone.

In the US, lack of CarPlay really only removes Tesla from consideration at this point. Everything else, from Ferrari to Kia, supports CarPlay. Is there another holdout I’m missing?

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#300

Post by KerrAvon »

solardev wrote: post #294
babyshake wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. What specifically about Carplay makes it so important, versus the non-Carplay equivalents that other modern cars have?

It doesn't suck as much. OEM car UIs are terrible.

And CarPlay gets regular updates and support, where usually what you buy from the car manufacturer had better make you ecstatic, because it’s not going to change, and you’ll be lucky to even get bug fixes.
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