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Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

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Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#641

Post by advisedwang »

ancorevard wrote: post #244

The most plain explanation is that this was simply a warning message from Russia. These two pipelines have no longer any value to them, nor to EU. However, what does have value are the numerous pipelines from Norway and other countries to EU. And this is where the real treat is. Russia has now shown it is willing to blow up infrastructure outside Ukraine. Russia is known to have carefully mapped out the gas pipelines…

Russia could send a warning message by shutting off the gas. What is the need to blow it up and reduce future choices?

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#642

Post by IAmGraydon »

thiagoharry wrote: post #576
eloff wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that doesn't look like an accident. I have difficulty imagining accidental ignition in an underwater gas pipeline. Where would the oxygen come from? Plus it's more than one explosion on the same day - can't be a coincidence. The next question is, who did it? It doesn't seem like something in Russia's interest, they've been wanting to get that pipeline approved and operational. They invested huge sums of money to b…

The USA is the country that threatened an attack against the gas pipeline. "If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the -- the border of Ukraine again, then there will be -- there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2," Biden said during the press conference with Scholz, who did not go as far as Biden, but insisted the U.S. and Germany remain "absolutely united." https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-meet-…

No, they didn’t threaten an attack. This is such a low-effort take on this whole situation. Think a bit.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#643

Post by davidw »

tpmx wrote: post #512
Symmetry wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the technical resources required to pull something like this off don't seem to be all that high. You need a ton or so of explosives which is the hard part, a delayed fuse, a water proof container, a camera and light that work underwater, and some winches to deploy the camera and then the bomb. It wouldn't surprise me if almost every nation in Europe could pull this off if they put their minds to i…

What kind of sub-national groups in relevant countries do you have in mind? Otherwise: Agreed.

The Libyans from Back to the Future?

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#644

Post by Symmetry »

tpmx wrote: post #512
Symmetry wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the technical resources required to pull something like this off don't seem to be all that high. You need a ton or so of explosives which is the hard part, a delayed fuse, a water proof container, a camera and light that work underwater, and some winches to deploy the camera and then the bomb. It wouldn't surprise me if almost every nation in Europe could pull this off if they put their minds to i…

What kind of sub-national groups in relevant countries do you have in mind? Otherwise: Agreed.

There are lots of options, mostly intelligence agencies of various sorts taking matters into their own hands. Maybe a European or American group which doesn't want Europe bought off or a Russia group which wants total victory rather than a peaceful compromise. One could imagine an ecoterrorist group wanting to do this in the confusion of the war but the timing so soon after Russia's mobilization makes it look like the explosions are related so probably not that.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#646

Post by advisedwang »

c2k wrote: post #245

I really hope I am wrong, but this looks like a "false flag" operation.

"false flag" is when one actor makes it look like another did it. But in this event there is no apparent saboteur. So it's more like a covert sabotage than "false flag" sabotage.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#647

Post by pphysch »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #628
pphysch wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russians blew up their own brand-new pipeline, which they spend billions creating (jointly with the Germans) and is one of the few major "hopes" to salvage that relationship, especially as winter dawns. That's frankly absurd. Russia almost certainly sabotaged a LNG terminal in Texas a few months ago (industrial cyberattack). This act was almost certainly done by Washington or their proxies. It drives the wedge fu…

Pretty sure the repair can be done before there is any chance the sanctions would be lifted. So Russia doesnt really lose anything important but is able to sow discord, mistrust and generally raise the fear level about gas supply.

That's possible, albeit a very expensive prank with no guaranteed upside. Why not just keep the valve shut and pretend you have no interest in opening it?

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#648

Post by [deleted] »

keewee7 wrote: post #445
origin_path wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't "settled for good", that's silly, it was still there pressurized and ready to go. Germany recently saw protests by people who wanted to open it, and some politicians saying it needed to be opened, and it is safe to assume that if things got really bad in Germany this winter they would have opened it. Clearly, whoever has attacked these pipelines knew perfectly well that the story about Russia being unwillin…

>Germany recently saw protests by people who wanted to open it, and some politicians saying it needed to be opened The protests were made up of AfD supporters and Russian/Serbian immigrants, and the the only politicians saying it needs to be opened are from the AfD. They are not representative of German public and political sentiments.

[deleted]

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#649

Post by nradov »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #550
aredox wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Ukraine's famous Baltic sea combat divers.

This entire war has been an exercise in Ukraine using other people's resources to attack Russia. If they wanted to I'm sure the US and Ukraine could figure out how to get this done.

During the entire war, Ukraine has only conducted a few small attacks on Russia. Almost all of their attacks have been on invading Russian troops inside Ukraine.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#650

Post by ersii »

madspindel wrote: post #314
apexalpha wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way Poland pulls this off. If ANY of the government members EVER leak this their position in the EU is done for. It's a direct act of aggression. This would be an extremely dumb move by Poland.

Why? At least in Sweden I would say most people are celebrating that Nordstream went kaputt.

That's a rather big claim and I would disagree.

That said, looking forward to paying 20 SEK per kWh, that'll be fun. Also, there's no wooden pellets or firewood for purchase no more - as it's all going to the continent.

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