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Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

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Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#571

Post by verdverm »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #526
ed_balls wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> patrol boat dropping some depth charges on a time delay in the middle of the night That's also an option, but you would have problems with precision and deniability*. You could use some WW2 style device and blame it on German mines that are still present.

If you knew the exact position of the pipes, why would there be a problem with precision? Maybe there are lighthouses in sight which you could use to line up exactly, maybe you'd use gps/glonass, maybe you'd have some plane go by near at a specified time, doing it for you, saying via radio, all good, drop it?

Water currents could be one cause of inaccuracies

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#572

Post by yyyk »

nkingsy wrote: post #249
_kbh_ wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edit: these things are censored in google, Wikipedia etc by US state actors. We largely have to go on the words of people like Max Blumenthal and others who have been largely censored and scrubbed from easy access by these same state apparatuses or wait until foia requests reveal what they always reveal about our benevolent state. Max Blumenthal is a Russian propagandist who is a regular guest on Russian state back…

I’m sure he takes the appearances he can get after having all his sources of funding cut. I hope you’re being paid well to call people propagandists who have devoted their lives and sacrificed everything to speak truth to power. I don’t take it at face value and it does seem he has an understandable bias at this point. The gray zone is super strange to read, but these are investigative journalists on the ground. Plea…

"Truth to power". There were few people as vehement in supporting Assad's genocide as Max Blumenthal (following his paid junket to Russia in 2015).

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#573

Post by dongobongo »

dongobongo wrote: post #99
tpmx wrote: post #54

The Swedish national seismic network picked up two explosions within kilometers of the reported gas leak locations yesterday. The time of the first explosion: Yesterday, Monday morning at 02:03 am, second one Monday evening at 7:04pm (local time, CEST). The reports of the gas leaks came at 1:52pm and 8:41pm, respectively - by means of ships reporting bubbling at the surface level. One of the two events registered at…

Act of war by USA? (equivalent if done through ally)

More evidence: https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/us-blew-up-russi...

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#574

Post by 4bpp »

MasterYoda wrote: post #332
jcranmer wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the explosions are relevant, some possible causes, ordered somewhat (but not entirely) by my personal estimation of likelihood: * Ecoterrorists -- I discount this mostly on the basis that they would have claimed responsibility by now. * NATO sabotage -- this reduces strategic options for several EU countries (albeit a strategic option that isn't really being exercised and is almost universally disfavored). *…

Gas prices had fallen back to the lowest levels in 3 months, but because of the sabotage, prices have gone up again because this has created uncertainty in the energy market. The kremlin wants to deliberately destabilize Europe and make it as difficult as possible with a big energy crisis, so support and aid to Ukraine falls. And its going bad for putin and his war now so he is also desperate, just look at the crazy…

Why would keeping the pipelines operational not be a strictly dominant (over blowing the pipelines up) strategy if reducing EU support and aid to Ukraine is the objective? Having the pipeline there but not delivering anything through it results in the same lack of gas, but also adds the option of dangling the possibility of delivering some in return for support and aid being reduced.

The most obvious beneficiary of the pipelines being blown are those countries that would stand to lose from the option of resumed delivery being available (and potentially taken) by Germany, that is, Ukraine, Baltic countries (who have a cultural and geopolitical interest in its victory) and the US (which has a geopolitical interest in its victory and a financial interest in selling LNG to Germany). Why do you think that these potential benefits to the countries in question are not real?

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#576

Post by thiagoharry »

eloff wrote: post #113
tpmx wrote: post #54

The Swedish national seismic network picked up two explosions within kilometers of the reported gas leak locations yesterday. The time of the first explosion: Yesterday, Monday morning at 02:03 am, second one Monday evening at 7:04pm (local time, CEST). The reports of the gas leaks came at 1:52pm and 8:41pm, respectively - by means of ships reporting bubbling at the surface level. One of the two events registered at…

So that doesn't look like an accident. I have difficulty imagining accidental ignition in an underwater gas pipeline. Where would the oxygen come from? Plus it's more than one explosion on the same day - can't be a coincidence. The next question is, who did it? It doesn't seem like something in Russia's interest, they've been wanting to get that pipeline approved and operational. They invested huge sums of money to b…

The USA is the country that threatened an attack against the gas pipeline.

"If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the -- the border of Ukraine again, then there will be -- there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2," Biden said during the press conference with Scholz, who did not go as far as Biden, but insisted the U.S. and Germany remain "absolutely united."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-meet-german-chancellor...

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#577

Post by maybelsyrup »

xtian wrote: post #545
eloff wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that doesn't look like an accident. I have difficulty imagining accidental ignition in an underwater gas pipeline. Where would the oxygen come from? Plus it's more than one explosion on the same day - can't be a coincidence. The next question is, who did it? It doesn't seem like something in Russia's interest, they've been wanting to get that pipeline approved and operational. They invested huge sums of money to b…

> The next question is, who did it? A Polish member of the European Parliament has thanked the US: https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1574800653724966915

Hilariously, this is the husband of Washington Post person "Anne Appelbaum", a noted historian and alleged "dingbat" [1] who, among other things, can be relied upon to give strong cover to her husband's racist BS. Appelbaum and Sikorski are big anti-Russia types, and cursory glances at their social media feeds shows how thirsty they are for war, and how willing they are to send others' children off to do it.

(Much as I dislike the guy, Sikorski's probably right about the US doing the pipeline bombing [2].)

[1] https://exiledonline.com/anne-applebaum-is-a-dingbat/

[2] https://seapowermagazine.org/baltops-22-a-perfect-opportunit...

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#578

Post by thiagoharry »

yznovyak wrote: post #449
eloff wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that doesn't look like an accident. I have difficulty imagining accidental ignition in an underwater gas pipeline. Where would the oxygen come from? Plus it's more than one explosion on the same day - can't be a coincidence. The next question is, who did it? It doesn't seem like something in Russia's interest, they've been wanting to get that pipeline approved and operational. They invested huge sums of money to b…

Common theme I've heard here (Kyiv, Ukraine) is that this sabotage is in Putin's direct interest. There are rumours of political infighting among Russia's leaders and that there are several factions trying to seize power, however since there is no clear winner, those guys need powerful allies, EU being a very important one. The idea is that Europe really wants to buy Russian gas, but not from Putin, so if Russia some…

Why is Putin direct interest destroy a source of income and leverage to the country!?!? Now Germany can buy gas from 2 sources: Ukraine and USA. This explanation makes no sense to me.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#579

Post by bradgessler »

some0x80070005 wrote: post #528
bradgessler wrote: post #310

Does anybody know what this means in terms of bringing the pipeline back online? I'm assuming it's filling with seawater, which seems like it would cause all sorts of problems between the salt and debris. Is it a matter of repairing the breaches, removing the water, cleaning the pipeline out, and pressurizing it or is this pipeline effectively destroyed?

Due to the special inside coating to reduce friction, seawater ingress would mean the abandonment of the pipeline. It’s just not possible to fix the line without just replacing the entire thing. I theorize it’s possible to run at severely reduced flow rates if they were able to get the water out, but that seems unlikely since the receiving facilities are not designed to handle the tremendous amount of water that woul…

So the pipeline is effectively destroyed. That’s kind of insane.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#580

Post by ajsnigrutin »

krzyk wrote: post #493
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia can just close the valve. Germany has an option to talk with russia to make a deal, so russia reopens the valve... some other forces don't want that.

Russia can close valve pretending they didn't close it but at the same time sending a warning. It is a 101 of economical warfare.

What warning? They literally said they'll close the valve.

With the closed valve, they have an upper hand at negotiations about gas, especially if the german people get cold and start sharpening the pitchforks for their own (german) politicians... now, even if the germans want to negotiate, there will be no gas until the pipelines are fixed, and it doesn't seem that will happen soon

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