Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

forsvaret.dk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 1001 posts

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#561

Post by type0 »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #499
saiya-jin wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd vote for Russia too, not direct evidence obviously but makes more sense than anybody else. Elites who decide see that EU wants and will cut itself off from Russia anyway, just a question of when and its coming soon. So harsh punishment of this pesky EU right before winter starts to feel the consequences of daring to break away from Russian dependence. Russia made tons of money in past months on oil and gas due to…

This makes zero sense to me. What does Russia get by destroying their own pipeline? If they wanted to shutoff gas, thats just a turn of a valve. Russia looses massive leverage by no longer being able to deliver gas, even if they wanted to. Prior to this, if the public got cold enough, they could tell their government "forget Ukraine, we need gas. Go agree to get it or we will vote you out ASAP". Now.... There's no po…

> This makes zero sense to me. What does Russia get by destroying their own pipeline?

1. To do the repair EU needs to lift sanctions

2. Gas prices spiked = short term monetary gain

3. Not so subtle message: hey Norway-Poland nice pipeline you opened here today, you should hope that nothing bad can happen to it.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#562

Post by cm2187 »

detritus wrote: post #14
cm2187 wrote: post #4

I read talks of sabotage but I struggle to understand the point, surely russia wouldn’t sabotage their own pipelines (they can just shut them) and I understand they are not in use right now. In fact doesn’t that mean that the pipeline will be flooded? Is that recoverable?

One reason I could imagine Russia herself would do this is because they might assume Nordstream is now an essentially obsolete asset, so has more value in their ability to demonstrate the fragility of OTHER gas pipelines, including the one inaugurated this very day between Norway and Poland. ed: https://twitter.com/ASabadus/status/1574729027570769920 Also, Apparently Norway has recently warned about drone activity ne…

Everyone knows they have the capability to do it. What prevents them from doing this is that if they do it, NATO will start sinking russian submarine in the north and baltic seas and we are in a shooting war. So I really don't see the point.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#564

Post by scraptor »

nix23 wrote: post #488
keewee7 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Germany recently saw protests by people who wanted to open it, and some politicians saying it needed to be opened The protests were made up of AfD supporters and Russian/Serbian immigrants, and the the only politicians saying it needs to be opened are from the AfD. They are not representative of German public and political sentiments.

>the only politicians saying it needs to be opened are from the AfD. Ah yeah Wagenknecht is part of the AfD now?

Just the opposite, she's a far left communist of the variety with strong bonds to russia. Which doesn't make her any more politically relevant.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#565

Post by libertine »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #519
libertine wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Russia's greatest leverage was Europe needing their gas, and eventually agreeing to stop supporting Ukraine in order to get the gas turned back on. That boat has sailed some time ago - you don't need to destroy something that's guaranteed it won't be used for decades probably, if ever again. No country in the West will do any trade with Russia under Putin. There's simply no turning back when you throw diplomacy and…

I see huge positives for Ukraine and by proxy the US by removing leverage from Russia.

What leverage?

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#566

Post by Kukumber »

hnov wrote: post #471
Kukumber wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing, there is high demand, and they have supply, they also can sell them contracts to build more infrastructure to increase the rate at wich supply is delivered Quickening the cut from gazprom is in their plan, considering: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazprom-says-groups-... We can all pretend and not see what's happening, but then you have this: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russia…

The US (or someone else) instigated Azerbaijan to go to war so that they can interfere with their own future gas sales?

Maybe, Iran has a lot of natural gas too, maybe they also want to control the area to prevent them from exporting gas? there is also a lot of uranium

The US gets all of his uranium mostly from that region of the world: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/nuclear/where-our-uraniu...

The US also has a documented history for such thing, both in the middle east, asia, and in south america (eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...)

The timing is too perfect, maybe gas is not the motive, maybe it is to expand OTAN over there? who knows

Do you remember the failed coup in Turkey? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

This region of the world is for sure very hectic, a lot of data to dissect and analyse

Israel is a little bit too silent these days imo, i need to dig deeper maybe

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#567

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #505
kbelder wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind, the Ukrainians are the only party who could blow the pipelines without being dirty. It's a strategic asset of a country they're in an active war with.

And it's a great way to make the rest of Europe never give in to Russian no matter how much they suffer. If enough people in Europe saw their grandmother shivering in January, they might rise up and say hell with it, we need our gas back no matter what the cost somewhere else in eastern Europe. But now they can't say that because it won't get the gas turned back on anyway.

> we need our gas back

What makes it their gas?

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#568

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

libertine wrote: post #565
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see huge positives for Ukraine and by proxy the US by removing leverage from Russia.

What leverage?

Europe needs gas. Russia has gas. If EU citizens get cold enough and broke enough, they could entice their governments to give in and stop supporting Ukraine and get their gas turned back on. Idk about you, but if it came down to my grandmother freezing at home or a Ukrainian grandmother living in east Ukraine having to say she's now Russian, the Ukraine grandmother is going first.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#569

Post by monkeydreams »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #546
yznovyak wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common theme I've heard here (Kyiv, Ukraine) is that this sabotage is in Putin's direct interest. There are rumours of political infighting among Russia's leaders and that there are several factions trying to seize power, however since there is no clear winner, those guys need powerful allies, EU being a very important one. The idea is that Europe really wants to buy Russian gas, but not from Putin, so if Russia some…

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't know that Ukraine has the capability to do this. The number of countries capable of this act is quite small.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#570

Post by bewaretheirs »

xtian wrote: post #559
protomyth wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somehow think the USA would have done it with a bit less big explosion solution.

Why’s that?

Methane is a significant greenhouse gas and I just don't see an attack that results in a large methane release being approved by the current administration. If they wanted to permanently shut the pipeline they'd do it differently.
Post reply on HN