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India's lattice buildings cool without air con

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Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#71

Post by NaturalPhallacy »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #13

Modern Indian housing in major Indian cities has done a complete 180 from these tried-and-tested architectural practices. The materials used seem to be deliberately chosen to maximize human misery. There's glass everywhere which, besides being impossible to keep clean in India's dusty summers, also retains heat and makes most housing unbearable without AC. Then there are the designs themselves. Faux wood is everywher…

Lol, that architecture is all over Portland, where the weather is hot for 1 month.

Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#72

Post by sharadov »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #13

Modern Indian housing in major Indian cities has done a complete 180 from these tried-and-tested architectural practices. The materials used seem to be deliberately chosen to maximize human misery. There's glass everywhere which, besides being impossible to keep clean in India's dusty summers, also retains heat and makes most housing unbearable without AC. Then there are the designs themselves. Faux wood is everywher…

The house that I grew up in India, has that lattice as part of the building. Used to be great when I was growing up as the house was on a raised foundation compared to surrounding houses, and we would get a nice breeze in the evenings. The neighborhood was not dense and we mostly had single family homes.

Now, because of the absence of zoning regulations, we have 4 story buildings - so there goes any natural light and ventilation and there is an epidemic of dengue because of mosquitoes.

And that lattice annoys me, will probably need to put a mesh there to keep out the mosquitoes.

Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#73

Post by trgn »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #65
trgn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents recently moved to a similar building with huge glass windows (different part of the world). They ended up installing black mesh roller shades, and pretty much need to keep them down half the year, to keep out the heat. For all intents and purposes, they now dwell in darkness. That kind of architecture basically creates new problems, rather than solves them.

I have big black mesh roller shades over a pair of large windows, they are amazingly effective at keeping the room cooler (as long as they're on the outside!) I think it'd be fair to say that they don't make you 'dwell in darkness' as much as a solid wall would...

Yes, they definitely need to be on the outside. Absolutely, they really make an amazing difference wrt keeping the apartment cool.

Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#74

Post by manquer »

twblalock wrote: post #68

Basically these buildings are just the same temperature as the outside, all the time. No air sealing, no privacy, no noise isolation. I could get the same result living in a garden shed, but I won't, because it sucks. Because these are from an "exotic" location apparently they are worthy of an article in a Western publication that treats them like some kind of amazing eco-friendly cultural marvel, when really all the…

Not the same temperature, it will not give you a differential like HVAC system can, but it can be substantially cooler than outside and in conjunction with lattices HVAC can be much cheaper as well.

the lattice basically increases surface area by a lot that increases cooling Same concept as a radiator .

The materials are also important , certain types of stone have desirable thermal properties especially the amount of heat they retain .

Instead of being close minded and think all things ancient/eastern are bad and useless (or all good either) why not incorporate the best of all ideas and make cooling efficient and cheaper .

Eco friendly cooling are not, they absolutely a cultural marvel, those intricate designs tell untold stories and a testament to human endeavor.

Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#75

Post by hammock »

culturestate wrote: post #33
smcl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing them a fair amount in the old quarter in Hanoi, quick search shows my memory isn't failing me: https://www.indochinavoyages.com/travel-blog/hanoi-old-quart...

For what are probably obvious reasons, this style of shutter is everywhere in the post-colonial tropics. Look at any heritage building in Hong Kong, Singapore, Hanoi, Nassau, Martinique…

Lowcountry South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana..

Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#76

Post by manquer »

wil421 wrote: post #15
b1ue64 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: "Jaali’s cooling feature relies on the Venturi effect in a similar way to an air conditioning unit. 'When air passes through holes, it picks up velocity and penetrates afar. Due to the small apertures, air gets compressed and when released it gets cooler,' says Pandya."

There’s no way holes are going to cool a building down like AC. The building is going to be similar to the outside it will just cut down on the greenhouse affect.

Nobody is saying that lattices are some magic solution that breaks the laws of thermodynamics and cool environments without expending energy.

It is an just an amplifier like radiator , to reduce the amount of HVAC you need . In 16th century they built only lattices because that’s all they had.

The suggestion is to use those ideas in modern design not copy paste the same designs.

Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#77

Post by [deleted] »

twblalock wrote: post #68

Basically these buildings are just the same temperature as the outside, all the time. No air sealing, no privacy, no noise isolation. I could get the same result living in a garden shed, but I won't, because it sucks. Because these are from an "exotic" location apparently they are worthy of an article in a Western publication that treats them like some kind of amazing eco-friendly cultural marvel, when really all the…

[deleted]

Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#78

Post by twblalock »

manquer wrote: post #74
twblalock wrote: post #68

Basically these buildings are just the same temperature as the outside, all the time. No air sealing, no privacy, no noise isolation. I could get the same result living in a garden shed, but I won't, because it sucks. Because these are from an "exotic" location apparently they are worthy of an article in a Western publication that treats them like some kind of amazing eco-friendly cultural marvel, when really all the…

Not the same temperature, it will not give you a differential like HVAC system can, but it can be substantially cooler than outside and in conjunction with lattices HVAC can be much cheaper as well. the lattice basically increases surface area by a lot that increases cooling Same concept as a radiator . The materials are also important , certain types of stone have desirable thermal properties especially the amount o…

> Instead of being close minded and think all things ancient/eastern are bad and useless (or all good either) why not incorporate the best of all ideas and make cooling efficient and cheaper .

That just doesn't work. Modern climate control technology is fundamentally based on having homes that are insulated and sealed off from outside airflow. Lots and lots of effort has gone into that, and people spend a lot of time and money retrofitting older homes to achieve it. You can't combine that sort of stuff with lattice windows and free air transfer from outside.

Also, don't accuse people of being close-minded just because they know newer stuff is better than older stuff. That is definitely the case for climate control, and for home building in general. Don't buy into the trope of "ancient eastern wisdom" -- people who live in Asia certainly don't fall for that nonsense, and they build modern homes with air conditioning just like everyone else because it's better.

Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#79

Post by vinay_ys »

Traditional Indian architecture has separation between outer zone and inner zones with different walls and roofs. Basically outer walls and attic roofs can heat up (and cool down with airflow) while inner walls and roofs will remain cooler. Also, the traditional clay-brick walls are much thicker than today's concrete blocks. Those clay bricks have much higher heat capacity.

Re: India's lattice buildings cool without air con

#80

Post by manquer »

twblalock wrote: post #78
manquer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same temperature, it will not give you a differential like HVAC system can, but it can be substantially cooler than outside and in conjunction with lattices HVAC can be much cheaper as well. the lattice basically increases surface area by a lot that increases cooling Same concept as a radiator . The materials are also important , certain types of stone have desirable thermal properties especially the amount o…

> Instead of being close minded and think all things ancient/eastern are bad and useless (or all good either) why not incorporate the best of all ideas and make cooling efficient and cheaper . That just doesn't work. Modern climate control technology is fundamentally based on having homes that are insulated and sealed off from outside airflow. Lots and lots of effort has gone into that, and people spend a lot of time…

Shell within shell is perfectly valid design for buildings and is found in nature as well. I am not an architect, am sure there are better solutions out there beyond what I know.

Popularity is not a good measure of something is better.

There are many aspects of ventilation that are actively studied still , it by no means a solved problem, just look at heating in London Underground for real world modern problem .

Closed areas and Smooth surfaces with leas surface area are terrible for radiation and air cooling . Buildings are not static objects they are heat sources as well.

Insulation and ventilation are different concurrent problems , some places need both equally , some need a lot of insulation and less of cooling and some need other way around . There is no one universal solution.

You are right I shouldn’t have called it closed minded . I gave it a charitable reading , reading back once more it is definitely racist not just closed minded , the parent post also called it culturally inferior not just technically so.

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