Earlier quoted context omitted.
Next to zero compared to what we pump in air all year long
Isn’t methane much, much more potent?
Yeah, but amount is next to nothing compared to all the cow farts/burps.
Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
311–320 of 1001 posts
Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
They have no incentive to do actions that damage the environment: Ecology activist organizations are funded by donations, which would dry up completely at the instant they are proven to be involved in such a disastrous leak.
hasn't stopped 'green' parties from shutting down nuclear power, so it's all a question of PR
They did that so that it gets replaced by renewables (but it did not go according to the plan...).
And in all honesty, between renewables and nuclear (fission), renewables are clearly a better investment.
Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assuming the explosions are relevant, some possible causes, ordered somewhat (but not entirely) by my personal estimation of likelihood: * Ecoterrorists -- I discount this mostly on the basis that they would have claimed responsibility by now. * NATO sabotage -- this reduces strategic options for several EU countries (albeit a strategic option that isn't really being exercised and is almost universally disfavored). *…
> it would have to be extremely substandard to have failed this quickly Yes, but that’s assuming proper maintenance. Russia doesn’t have domestic technology to build or maintain complicated infrastructure like these undersea pipelines. International sanctions against Russia are rather wide. For instance, Halliburton (a US oil field service company) no longer operates in Russia: https://www.halliburton.com/en/about-us…
I’m not really sure how they could have both failed explosively (based on seismic evidence) within 24hrs … this is either the one of the unlikeliest un-exploded ordinance event in history… or someone did this deliberately.
Seismologists are pretty good at telling explosions from earthquakes and other things because they are one of the most common noises they have to clean out when studying natural events.
Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
#314If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Poland. The Polish prime minister immediately called "sabotage" and fingered Russia, while everyone else is still saying "it could be sabotage but we need to investigate first". Russia wants the taps capable of being turned ON at their discretion, not permanently broken. This hurts their bargaining position in a big way because they've just lost their biggest source of lev…
There's no way Poland pulls this off. If ANY of the government members EVER leak this their position in the EU is done for. It's a direct act of aggression. This would be an extremely dumb move by Poland.
Why? At least in Sweden I would say most people are celebrating that Nordstream went kaputt.
Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
#315Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assuming the explosions are relevant, some possible causes, ordered somewhat (but not entirely) by my personal estimation of likelihood: * Ecoterrorists -- I discount this mostly on the basis that they would have claimed responsibility by now. * NATO sabotage -- this reduces strategic options for several EU countries (albeit a strategic option that isn't really being exercised and is almost universally disfavored). *…
There's also "the Sicilian option". Putin, knowing that the pipelines are no longer practically useful, blew them up deliberately to seed mistrust and discontent among NATO allies. It's a mindbender, but he's also a former KGB officer and may have bombed his own people to justify the 2nd Chechen war[1]. He can only succeed in Ukraine if he divides Ukraine's western allies. What other tools does he have? [1] https://w…
I’ve got no proof he did it, but based on his other actions, he’s one of the only people I can believe might do it, for reasons exactly like this. The other candidate in my mind is the USA based on the weirdly vehement comments earlier this year about never letting the Nord Stream 2 happen.
It just doesn’t make any sense at all for someone else, it’s either weird, overly convoluted, risky or impossible based on lack of necessary equipment… this isn’t something you can just do a lone wolf terrorist attack against, it’s armoured agains ship anchors, sunk into the seabed, and deep underwater, you can’t just bomb it with some home made depth charges from a fishing boat… which is why this whole thing is so damn weird.
Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
Freeze to death cold. I get the feeling a lot of people here live in California or on the west coast and don’t quite fathom how cold it gets in some parts of the world.
Might actually happen in Bulgaria. And yet, for the most part, people are overreacting. I for one have lived in a temporary unheated german apartment with horrible insulation (build around 1955, not upgraded). It sounds way worse than it is. The only actually unpleasant thing is washing your hair. Just keep an eye on the humidity.
I won't heat my (different) apartment this winter. It will be ok.
Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why does everyone assume the need for submersibles? Why not a small patrol boat dropping some depth charges on a time delay in the middle of the night?
> patrol boat dropping some depth charges on a time delay in the middle of the night That's also an option, but you would have problems with precision and deniability*. You could use some WW2 style device and blame it on German mines that are still present.
I'm not sure deniability is so important when it's multiple coordinated explosions.
How else could it have been done.. What about explosives being built in from day 0? Sort of like how some bridges in Europe were pre-mined during the cold war?
Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Would some special forces with diving equipment and a fishing boat be enough? Sections are shallow. (No clue about the blast sites.) With zero information on the extent of the damage beyond measured pressure drops, folks dropping weighted dry bags of dynamite from kayaks is in scope.
A supposed expert on Twitter claims it is divable: https://twitter.com/CovertShores/status/1574750260743880710
This should have its own submission or be at the top of the thread.
Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of these make much sense. It's pretty idle to speculate, and the list is most likely incomplete and inaccurate. It only feeds the trolls. Then again, this whole thread is full of fingerpointing without evidence. If HN can't contain itself, what won't the twitter and facebook, and –may God forget– Truth Social do?
Note that NS2 has also been destroyed, and that's even more recent than NS1. It was definitely sabotage, it can't be anything else given the timing, and it has to be state sponsored given that the pipelines are under the ocean. Berlin apparently thinks it would require submarines or special forces. US / Ukraine are unfortunately the only states for which this makes sense (perhaps US with back-room permission from som…
(Assuming it would not be beneath the US or proxies to do such a thing.) It would not make sense right now. Germany was nowhere reopening Nordstream 2 and if it came to that the US would have other effective means of blocking its use before reaching to outright sabotage.