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Harrison Bergeron (1961)

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Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#41

Post by fullshark »

mistrial9 wrote: post #15
superb-owl wrote: post #8

This story is typically seen as a critique of socialism, but it's more likely that Vonnegut intended it as a critique of critiques of socialism [1]. Vonnegut himself was a socialist [2], and the absurdist tone of the story reinforces this idea. [1] https://s3.amazonaws.com/arena-attachments/197545/03882696bf... [2] https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/04/kurt-vonneguts-socialism-fr...

thanks so much for reducing this emotional work of art to a political check box?

I'm not sure I should like it until I learn what side of the current cultural/political war it's on.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#42

Post by nmilo »

swyx wrote: post #6

i dont know Vonnegut's politics but i have always wondered if this story was secretly a fairytale for the right-leaning. it paints wanting equality as intensely evil, holding back the best of humanity. which, yes, true in communist regimes, but you see echoes in some less well considered laws and policies in modern life. i am afraid to like, or even publicly discuss, the story because of what it might say about me.

> i am afraid to like, or even publicly discuss, the story because of what it might say about me.

I really hope this is just well-written meta satire, and not actually how you feel.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#43

Post by pjc50 »

mistrial9 wrote: post #15
superb-owl wrote: post #8

This story is typically seen as a critique of socialism, but it's more likely that Vonnegut intended it as a critique of critiques of socialism [1]. Vonnegut himself was a socialist [2], and the absurdist tone of the story reinforces this idea. [1] https://s3.amazonaws.com/arena-attachments/197545/03882696bf... [2] https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/04/kurt-vonneguts-socialism-fr...

thanks so much for reducing this emotional work of art to a political check box?

Vonnegut was a highly political writer, as SF writers often are. His most famous work is the extremely traumatized "Slaughterhouse 5", after all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterhouse-Five

That doesn't mean it can or should be neatly mapped to the left/right distinction or culture wars of the current moment. Especially when people have so many bizarre ideas about what constitutes "left" or "socialism".

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#44

Post by motohagiography »

Revisiting mid-century dystopian fiction seems like it might yield some insights about the present. I didn't know who the story was by until the last line. I studied his work in 9th grade english class, and it just clicked how meaningful it is that I was part of a lot of experimental education programs as a kid. One could legitimately say I escaped from a lab, and my phone has also been on silent mode with alerts turned off for at least a decade now.

Maybe we can attract the eyre of the very-concerned about old sci-fi and let them make it into a moral panic?

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#45

Post by falcolas »

Ironically, I personally have always felt a kinship to the character George Bergeron. Why? Because it's a shockingly accurate depiction of how ADHD's lack of control over one's own concentration feels.

Normal stimuli can be like the sounds coming from his earpiece. Unique, unpredictable, and they wreck utter havoc on your ability to concentrate. But sometimes the sounds don't come for hours, and your mind won't - can't - break free of its current task without those sounds.

Anyways. Always a favorite story of mine.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#46

Post by josephcsible »

geysersam wrote: post #40
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #4

This story had an amazing effect on me as a child and before it begins, yes I have a disability (though a so called invisible disability - I have type 1 diabetes and epilepsy). It isn't that we should turn a blind eye to the disabled, as many use it as a parable for. Many disabled do need extra help, but that help comes in the form of lifting up, not pushing down those who are able. The able should be encouraged, in…

Interesting. I've always felt the story to be a bit of a straw man. Don't we always celebrate and idolize ability, beauty etc?

There have been school districts lately that have been getting rid of advanced math classes in the name of equality.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#47

Post by pjc50 »

geysersam wrote: post #40
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #4

This story had an amazing effect on me as a child and before it begins, yes I have a disability (though a so called invisible disability - I have type 1 diabetes and epilepsy). It isn't that we should turn a blind eye to the disabled, as many use it as a parable for. Many disabled do need extra help, but that help comes in the form of lifting up, not pushing down those who are able. The able should be encouraged, in…

Interesting. I've always felt the story to be a bit of a straw man. Don't we always celebrate and idolize ability, beauty etc?

What constitutes "ability" and "beauty", and what is acceptable/permitted to idolize, is extremely culturally specific. And the story explores a world with a very different view of those.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#48

Post by DubiousPusher »

ep103 wrote: post #9
swyx wrote: post #6

i dont know Vonnegut's politics but i have always wondered if this story was secretly a fairytale for the right-leaning. it paints wanting equality as intensely evil, holding back the best of humanity. which, yes, true in communist regimes, but you see echoes in some less well considered laws and policies in modern life. i am afraid to like, or even publicly discuss, the story because of what it might say about me.

This story was part of a collection of literature that came out shortly after it became irrefutably understood on the left, that the USSR had failed and become a totalitarian state. Early on in USSR's history most of the socialistically leaning world was hopeful that the USSR might still be, to some degree, working out as hoped. It was extremely hard to get unbiased reporting about what was actually happening within…

> most of the socialistically leaning world was hopeful that the USSR might still be, to some degree, working out as hoped.

I have to wonder what you mean by "most". Because as early as 1921 the Bolsheviks were supressing anarcho-communists in Ukraine, purging former Mensheviks, putting the SRs on trial and seizing food from starving peasants. All of which was highly contentious and written about combatively in anarchist and socialist newspapers.

Perhaps by "most" you refer to the largely student and professional class socialists who lived in Bourgeoisie democracies largely untouched by the history of Bolshevik domination and who for some reason have become the most visible historical standard bearer of socialism in western pop culture.

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