Live data from Hacker News

Adversarial Collaboration

edge.org

221–224 of 224 posts

Re: Adversarial Collaboration

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were to be charitable to the post you're replying to, they're trying to show that your takeaway is wrong - instead of saying you changed your mind based on new evidence you should instead say "I was wrong to think I had the knowledge, training, or skills to make a decision and use that decision to influence others".

Correct, imagine if they had recognized not having enough information and chose not to form an opinion that needed changing once more evidence was gathered? Imagine if they had chosen not to be a loudmouth (their words), and thereby adding to the cacophony of uselessness that happened around that time? The problem isn't that they reached the wrong conclusion, it's how __CONFIDENT__ they were in that conclusion despit…

Do you think that every single facet of the response we had to COVID was correct and useful?

The evidence does suggest that better testing could have reduced the death rate while also allowing for gentler, more calibrated responses.

Near zero? Not in the US - but in the places that DID achieve that feat, testing was critical.

You are being absurdly harsh. Many experts have been trained by decades of "peacetime" to be conservative with their assumptions and requests. Just think back to "stand six feet apart" and "you can take your mask off while eating" to see why that is a problem.

Re: Adversarial Collaboration

#222
post #198
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Citation needed. Citation for personal preference? Or for claim that currently confidence is rewarded more then accuracy? > the problem with which is not that it’s “simply untrue” but that The statement is untrue, because people do change minds. People change minds also about stuff that matters. They dont do it often, but they do it.

> is moving away I think the citation would be for "is moving away" as that's the most bold claim.

That was the premise of the comment I reacted to. It says: I’m starting to see more and more people demand quantifiers or conditional disqualifiers on statements that shouldn’t reasonably be considered as absolutes.

Seeing more and more people demand such qualifiers is culture moving away.

Re: Adversarial Collaboration

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone is a member of a group, it is almost not worth listening to their arguments, especially arguments in support of views held strongly by that group. They are arguing in order to maintain their group membership, not to find the truth. It appears this is true of academic and scientific disciplines as much as anywhere else. I tend to agree with you, but based on the way you have worded this, I am curious if y…

I think there can be different things going on under the hood. Some people will be self aware, and not take arguments or positions too seriously - their own or others - they know they hold the points of view for group membership - they tend to not to like to debate them, aware of the futility. More common though is ego-defense/group-defense reaction. This is the zealot. Both a person's ego (you're wrong) and their gr…

Ya, it's a big chaotic mess, but I wonder if we humans are somewhat prone to letting the apparent complexity of it (the actual complexity isn't actually known) scare us away from trying to make sense of it all. Look how much complexity about the physical world that science has come to understand, because we applied some of the sharpest minds we have to the problem, and funded them well.

If we don't even try (including if the idea doesn't even cross our minds), we may never succeed.

Post reply on HN