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Show HN: Get conversational practice in over 20 languages by talking to an AI

talk.quazel.com

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Re: Show HN: Get conversational practice in over 20 languages by talking to an AI

#71

It really looks cool. But, why it doesn't have English? Or meybe if it does have, why isn't showed first? People who use language learning apps are focused in learning English most of the time. Still those who speak fluently are trying to improve their speaking and listening. And the first language which appeared for me was Brazilian Portuguese which is my mother language. [Edit] I was trying the Brazilian Portuguese…

Yeah. I been looking for a few months for services to improve my English in a cheap/free way. Until now some Discord channels have been my solution to practice conversation, but it would be nice to have this kind of service to speak anytime about any topic.

Re: Show HN: Get conversational practice in over 20 languages by talking to an AI

#72
It's impressive, the answers the AI gives are a lot more insightful than I expected. But they do seem somewhat isolated, in the sense that it can answer two questions about the same topic in a very different way, that are not logically consistent with each other.

E.g. first I asked: What do you think about Famous Person X?, the AI answered 'He's great'. Then when a few seconds later I asked: 'Don't you think Famous Person X is [something bad]?', the AI answered that he completely agreed and gave reasons why he thinks this is the case.

The answers in isolation seem very sensible, but the lack of consistency throughout the conversation as a whole can make it seem as if you're not talking to a real person.

Re: Show HN: Get conversational practice in over 20 languages by talking to an AI

#73
post #72

It's impressive, the answers the AI gives are a lot more insightful than I expected. But they do seem somewhat isolated, in the sense that it can answer two questions about the same topic in a very different way, that are not logically consistent with each other. E.g. first I asked: What do you think about Famous Person X?, the AI answered 'He's great'. Then when a few seconds later I asked: 'Don't you think Famous P…

Given the goals of the AI,that seems like a very minor limitation... like you were in a language textbook and in page 34 Ricardo said he enjoys hot peppers but in page 72 he says spicy food upsets his stomach.

Re: Show HN: Get conversational practice in over 20 languages by talking to an AI

#75
Clever. But I'll never use it.

AIs simply do not sound like people. They can fool me for a little while, but eventually you realize it's just a bot. But that's when I'm a native speaker. How will I be able to detect this when I struggle with the language?

I can't help but think it's dangerous to give a non native speaker access to this, and lead them to believe they're learning to speak like a real person. They aren't -- they're learning to speak like GPT-2.

The chief sin of AI is: this model is sufficiently close to a human. (How'd that work out for the resume filter? Or the AI responsible for setting bail?)

The worse sin is teaching someone to emulate what the AI does. You take whatever biases the AI has, and encode it into a living, breathing person.

Re: Show HN: Get conversational practice in over 20 languages by talking to an AI

#76
post #73
post #72

It's impressive, the answers the AI gives are a lot more insightful than I expected. But they do seem somewhat isolated, in the sense that it can answer two questions about the same topic in a very different way, that are not logically consistent with each other. E.g. first I asked: What do you think about Famous Person X?, the AI answered 'He's great'. Then when a few seconds later I asked: 'Don't you think Famous P…

Given the goals of the AI,that seems like a very minor limitation... like you were in a language textbook and in page 34 Ricardo said he enjoys hot peppers but in page 72 he says spicy food upsets his stomach.

Good point. It was just something I observed, and wondered if it was a common issue with these language AIs, or something specific to this one.

Re: Show HN: Get conversational practice in over 20 languages by talking to an AI

#77

In my opinion the issue with most language programs is that they focus too early on speaking when listening should be the focus early on. Really speaking shouldn't even come into the picture until exposure of about a year and something like 15,000 hours of good comprehensible input.

That seems like an extremely inefficient way of learning a language, and does not match at all my experience nor the experience of the people I know fluent in multiple languages, and it seems to go straight against a common advice which is to speak and practice early and often, as 'producing' language is much more efficient to learn it than 'consuming' it. What makes you think 15000 hours of listening would improve a…

No, bobajeff is correct. The vast majority of language acquisition occurs through input and exposure to the language via reading and listening. Trying to speak when you have no grasp yet of the grammar and vocabulary is not an efficient use of time, plus you don't have a good grasp of the sounds early on. You're better off gaining comprehension before you try to start speaking--if you actually look at the experiences of someone like Benny Lewis, who is well known for his "speak early and often" approach, you'll note that it was only effective for him with languages he already had a decent background with, or that were reasonably close to English.

Re: Show HN: Get conversational practice in over 20 languages by talking to an AI

#78

In my opinion the issue with most language programs is that they focus too early on speaking when listening should be the focus early on. Really speaking shouldn't even come into the picture until exposure of about a year and something like 15,000 hours of good comprehensible input.

That seems like an extremely inefficient way of learning a language, and does not match at all my experience nor the experience of the people I know fluent in multiple languages, and it seems to go straight against a common advice which is to speak and practice early and often, as 'producing' language is much more efficient to learn it than 'consuming' it. What makes you think 15000 hours of listening would improve a…

This is a common misconception. It probably does not match your and others' experience simply because it is conventional wisdom, and most people are taught to do this. But just because most people do something a certain way does not make it the most efficient way.

There are a number of reasons why you would want to focus on input early on. For starters, with very little exposure to a language, you have very little idea of what it is supposed to sound like. Not just pronunciation but word choice, grammar, and phrasing as well. So when outputting early you will make your best effort attempts, which are almost certainly going to be incorrect. Odds are these poor "best effort" attempts will stick as muscle memory and continue to be bad habits well into fluency, if you make it that far. I'm sure you've encountered many foreign speakers in English that are very fluent but have poor pronunciation or use incorrect grammar.

I've never heard that "producing" a language is more efficient to learning it than "consuming" it. How can you learn anything by producing it without having "consumed" it first? That's not learning, that's inventing, and you don't want to be in the business of inventing language unless you're William Shakespeare. If you're interested in learning more about this idea, check out Stephen Krashen's Input Hypothesis [0]. In particular this quote from the Wikipedia article is salient:

> Talking (output) is not practicing. Krashen stresses yet again that speaking in the target language does not result in language acquisition. Although speaking can indirectly assist in language acquisition, the ability to speak is not the cause of language learning or acquisition. Instead, comprehensible output is the effect of language acquisition.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_hypothesis#Input_hypothe...

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