Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Most people in the UK are on fixed rate mortgages, most of which are 2-3 year fixes. You (UK) keeps using that word (fixed). I don't think it means what you think it means. Also, I'm really sorry you're in this position. One of these days we'll figure out something better than Capitalism.
That is literally how they are marketed, and the rate is fixed for N years.
British pound hits record low against the dollar
341–350 of 379 posts
Re: British pound hits record low against the dollar
#342So the bigger news here imo is what's happening in the bond market. It's now expected that the BoE will increase rates above 6% by the middle of next year. Most people in the UK are on fixed rate mortgages, most of which are 2-3 year fixes. Those who brought a home during the pandemic or fixed at a low rate typically fixed at around 1-2%. I personally fixed for 2 years at a rate of 1.7% just over a year a go when I m…
Having lived through, and lost all my shit, in the last financial crisis as a young man I'd also like to say something more directly to you. You did not let your family down. You thought you were making a good financial decision to help secure their future. Nobody, no matter what they tell you, can say they can predict bubbles. More aptly put, your nations economics, and predictions thereof, do not rest on your shoulders.
The governments of the world will have to step in. Pay attention to government run programs to protect you during a recession. If you do default or get foreclosed on keep all of your records. I fled real life and joined the military after defaulting on my debts. In my last year of service I challenged the total of my debt as reported by creditors and won because they couldn't prove custody or the amounts.
There's a long wind between "oh shit, things look they can be bad" and "oh shit, I'm fucked". Don't jump on the latter outlook just yet, try to ride this out and look for opportunities that will help you safely navigate these times.
Re: British pound hits record low against the dollar
#343So the bigger news here imo is what's happening in the bond market. It's now expected that the BoE will increase rates above 6% by the middle of next year. Most people in the UK are on fixed rate mortgages, most of which are 2-3 year fixes. Those who brought a home during the pandemic or fixed at a low rate typically fixed at around 1-2%. I personally fixed for 2 years at a rate of 1.7% just over a year a go when I m…
> I'm reading online that I was stupid for buying a house in a bubble and that rates need to go up and house prices need to fall. I don't think you're stupid. You couldn't have foreseen the sequence of events that has produced this situation. For what it's worth I did a very similar stress test, with similar assumptions, when I bought my home. I feel like this volatility is something of a rude awakening for our gener…
Thanks man. At the end of the day a mortgage is always a risk and you can only be so conservative with your expectations. People have been predicting rates will move up for years, but I'm not sure anyone predicted rates would move up 6% in a year and a half even if in theory it was possible.
> What does the 500,000 figure represent? There will be many people whose fixed-term mortgage rates expire in a now much higher-rate environment, including those on longer-term fixes negotiated before the pandemic.
There's a lot of people who will need to fix at a higher rate in the coming years, but most I suspect are at little risk. If you owned your home for 10 years you've already paid down a lot of the mortgage and you were probably used to modestly higher rates anyway.
Here's a chart: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdlyDZhWAAI95pl?format=jpg&name=...
Where the risk would be is new buyers with a high percentage of debt / equity who brought over the last couple of years who now need to move to a much higher rate. I believe that number is around 500,000, but I've not seen an exact figure for that. It's somewhere around that though from the numbers I've seen.
Higher mortgage rates generally obviously aren't great for anyone though. Even if you can afford it your mortgage payments going up it will still mean you have less to spend elsewhere.
Re: British pound hits record low against the dollar
#344So the bigger news here imo is what's happening in the bond market. It's now expected that the BoE will increase rates above 6% by the middle of next year. Most people in the UK are on fixed rate mortgages, most of which are 2-3 year fixes. Those who brought a home during the pandemic or fixed at a low rate typically fixed at around 1-2%. I personally fixed for 2 years at a rate of 1.7% just over a year a go when I m…
>I'm reading online that I was stupid for buying a house in a bubble and that rates need to go up and house prices need to fall. Would you rather have perpetually increasing housing prices? Wouldn’t that be even worse for your younger and future family members? I don’t think you’re stupid, but this does seem like shortsighted thinking. (I do hope you manage to get through this as unscathed as possible)
Well that's the problem. What do you do? Rent and wait for a crash that might never happen or just buy and hope it works out? Both are a huge risk. Those who waited in recent years now have to buy at much much higher prices.
> Wouldn’t that be even worse for your younger and future family members?
I want rates to rise and for housing affordability to come down. I even planned for that. What I didn't expect was for rates to rise 6% in a year or for there to potentially be a housing crash so soon after I brought. My house not decreasing in value with a slow increase in rates would have been fine.
> I don’t think you’re stupid, but this does seem like shortsighted thinking.
Yeah, perhaps. I just wish everyone who knew this was going to happen was around a couple of years ago to talk me out of it. Honestly it seemed like everyone was of the opinion that buying a house was generally a good financial decision until a few months ago. Now everyone is telling I made a stupid decision and should have rented. I don't know what to think anymore.
I did try to calculate affordability under reasonable circumstances. Most people two years ago would have recommended checking that you could afford interest rates to normalise to 5%. I could (with a bit of a buffer) and if they were to go higher over say 5 years that would have been fine because I would have time to pay down my mortgage and hopefully would be making more by then. What I didn't account for was the huge increase in energy bills, cost of living plus interest rates going above 6% in a year. I know I should of and apparently people did, but I'm still not clear how I was meant to predict the largest affordability crisis in UK history.
Not making excuses though, I feel upset and annoyed at the timing. But ultimately I just feel like a failure for letting everyone who relies on me down, and that's my doing.
Hope this doesn't come off as me making excuses, I'm just trying to explain my perspective. I wasn't trying to gamble on house prices going up or knowingly making a risky bet as a lot of people have been suggesting to me recently. I was just trying to buy a house for my family.
Re: British pound hits record low against the dollar
#345I'm not sure it's so much a story of the British pound, as of the US dollar, given that the pound-euro exchange rate is still well within it's range for the last 5 years: https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=GBP&view=5Y The Chinese yuan and Japanease yen are also both at their lowest value vs the dollar in recent years, and moving faster than they normally do. For each of these (UK, EU, China, Japan) there…
China specifically also directly sets the rate bands that are allowed. They’ve specifically weakened their currency to juice their economy (and they are lowering rates).
Re: British pound hits record low against the dollar
#346So the bigger news here imo is what's happening in the bond market. It's now expected that the BoE will increase rates above 6% by the middle of next year. Most people in the UK are on fixed rate mortgages, most of which are 2-3 year fixes. Those who brought a home during the pandemic or fixed at a low rate typically fixed at around 1-2%. I personally fixed for 2 years at a rate of 1.7% just over a year a go when I m…
What you're describing is known here as an ARM (Adjustable Rate Mortgage) and they are a very scary thing because you never know for sure what the macro economic situation will look like.
Re: British pound hits record low against the dollar
#347I don't get it. The dollar is supposed to be inflating, so it should take more dollars to buy things. But it takes fewer dollars to buy euros and pounds and stocks and bonds. The prices of all of these things, denominated in dollars, is plummeting. WTF?
Re: British pound hits record low against the dollar
#348So the bigger news here imo is what's happening in the bond market. It's now expected that the BoE will increase rates above 6% by the middle of next year. Most people in the UK are on fixed rate mortgages, most of which are 2-3 year fixes. Those who brought a home during the pandemic or fixed at a low rate typically fixed at around 1-2%. I personally fixed for 2 years at a rate of 1.7% just over a year a go when I m…
I'm pretty sure this would be called an Adjustable Rate Mortgage (ARM) in the US. You aren't stupid; ARMs are sold heavily during "good times" and to be frank, to my knowledge, most of your country uses what we call ARMs without issue. Having lived through, and lost all my shit, in the last financial crisis as a young man I'd also like to say something more directly to you. You did not let your family down. You thoug…
But yes, ARMs are basically the entire UK market. We don't have long-term fixes like in the US. The longest fix we have here is 10 years and they're quite rare. Overwhelmingly borrowers go with 2, 3 or 5 year fixes. I believe the US is a huge outlier in that the majority of your mortgages since the GFC have been 30 year fixes.
Things are very bad right now, but I'm still exploring options. It's possible at this point that we might still get through this if we're extremely careful with money (as in beans and rice every day for the next two years) and rates don't go any higher. It also assumes I don't lose my job which is at risk because of the recession. I'd like to say it's 50/50, but realistically there's probably a 20-30% chance I'll be okay at this point which isn't ideal, but it's still a hand worth playing.
I would bet against the government stepping in because here in the UK you have renters who hate homeowners, and boomers who typically own there homes outright and therefore tend to blame people struggling with mortgages because in their day rates were 10% (obviously this is never adjusted for affordability, but still). Either way there is close to zero political incentive to help millennials who brough homes in the last two years. Nor is there any precedent to helping home owners in my position. Our new PM is also a bit of a Thatcherite and may actually be trying to raise rates with her economic policies which I think is part of the recent the market is reacting as it is.
Honestly I doubt there's really a way out if things go against me any more. I'll have to declare bankruptcy and take it from there I suppose. I'm trying to stay strong, but I don't deal with stuff like this well. I don't even know if I want to deal with it. There's no reward at the end, it's just more suffering.
Re: British pound hits record low against the dollar
#349Re: British pound hits record low against the dollar
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm pretty sure this would be called an Adjustable Rate Mortgage (ARM) in the US. You aren't stupid; ARMs are sold heavily during "good times" and to be frank, to my knowledge, most of your country uses what we call ARMs without issue. Having lived through, and lost all my shit, in the last financial crisis as a young man I'd also like to say something more directly to you. You did not let your family down. You thoug…
Thanks. I can't tell you how much comments like this mean right now. It's nice knowing someone can relate. I'm sure you also had your fair share of people telling you how stupid you were for taking out an ARM. But yes, ARMs are basically the entire UK market. We don't have long-term fixes like in the US. The longest fix we have here is 10 years and they're quite rare. Overwhelmingly borrowers go with 2, 3 or 5 year f…