Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

theglobeandmail.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 183 posts

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#171

Post by somerandomqaguy »

vic-traill wrote: post #145
somerandomqaguy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were two very talented devs I know that took $11/hr CAD jobs personally. I know of more with rough salaries $40,000 and below. Even me; when I was in QA, my salary was $52,000 for 9 years of experience. And that was after a raise. Like it or not, there's people willing to take those positions. No where near as many as Canadian companies would like, but they are there.

> two very talented devs I know that took $11/hr CAD jobs personally When was this? Note that $11/hr CAD is below the current minimum wage of every Canadian province and territory as of June 1 2022 [0] As an aside - what leads to a talented individual doing dev for $11/hr CAD? I'm not able to conjure up a scenario where that is the case other than they were working for their own startup ... ? [0] https://www.retailco…

> When was this?

About 10 years ago, at the time the minimum wage was around $9/hr to $10/hr or so. Adjusted for inflation it'd be around $13.78 in today's money.

> As an aside - what leads to a talented individual doing dev for $11/hr CAD? I'm not able to conjure up a scenario where that is the case other than they were working for their own startup ... ?

They were freshly graduated, with low cost of living at that time. But like many new graduates, were having difficulty getting that first job, which caused a measure of desperation. Throw in the fact that the problem domain we were working on at the time was genuinely interesting, and it's not too difficult to convince yourself that kind of money isn't so bad. At least for a while.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#172

Post by throwawaylinux »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #156
throwawaylinux wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Higher investment rate means when prices go down/a recession happens, people invest in new businesses which means a recovery happens quicker and is more robust. I mean you have lower rates so the downturn will have a smaller impact in an absolute sense. > Just look at Canada's GDP per capita over time versus the US'. Or the fact our only job growth since the pandemic started has been in government jobs. Our private…

> I mean you have lower rates ??? Ours is at the same as the US... > because it was a far riskier investment than others. Downturns are more about whether or not consumers still spend, which is based on their savings rate and willingness to invest.

??? Ours is at the same as the US...

"lower investment rates,"

> Downturns are more about whether or not consumers still spend, which is based on their savings rate and willingness to invest.

For tech startups focused on selling to the government, that doesn't really apply. And for those that aim to sell their product internationally it's not specific to the country they are based in.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#173

Post by madeofpalk »

xal wrote: post #93
sbarre wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should read Tobi's post about what happened. That's not how it was. I did read that back when it was posted. I hope you recognize PR when you see it? Sorry if it came across like I was saying that companies are being evil or bad or vain about how they're hiring. Quite the opposite, and more dangerously, I think companies see nothing wrong with the boom-then-bust approach to hiring, and that it's going to happen…

I write my own posts, not PR. Don’t be so jaded.

You can write your own PR.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#174

Post by Mikeb85 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #172
Mikeb85 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean you have lower rates ??? Ours is at the same as the US... > because it was a far riskier investment than others. Downturns are more about whether or not consumers still spend, which is based on their savings rate and willingness to invest.

??? Ours is at the same as the US... "lower investment rates," > Downturns are more about whether or not consumers still spend, which is based on their savings rate and willingness to invest. For tech startups focused on selling to the government, that doesn't really apply. And for those that aim to sell their product internationally it's not specific to the country they are based in.

> "lower investment rates,"

Higher investment is NEVER a bad thing. We're not talking putting money in the stock market, we're talking willingness to put money to use.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#175

Post by mardifoufs »

bmc7505 wrote: post #166
TMWNN wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Only $50k grants? You must have missed the AI startup wave here in Montreal. Indeed, I certainly remember the days when Montreal was said to be the next "AI superpower". How much of that was driven by the media predicting after Trump's election in 2016 that hordes of tech companies and employees would flee north of the border? (And how much of that reporting, in turn, was driven by smug Trudeau government bureaucrat…

Montreal still is a AI powerhouse. Most of the same people who were here ten years ago still are, and still working on the same research topics, just with less flashy PR. https://youtube.com/watch?v=LVXkISpbq2k

Yeah if anything I think the ecosystem is healthier. More established corporations have moved in, and the startups that pop up are usually more legitimate.

(Though I think MILA is kind of losing some of its lustre, both in terms of research output and quality. I guess it might just be that my friends there are mostly doing RL or cognitive research, which I both find to be pretty... unpractical? They give me a 1980s AI dead-end vibes, but that's obviously purely personal biais)

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#176

Post by throwawaylinux »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #174
throwawaylinux wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Ours is at the same as the US... "lower investment rates," > Downturns are more about whether or not consumers still spend, which is based on their savings rate and willingness to invest. For tech startups focused on selling to the government, that doesn't really apply. And for those that aim to sell their product internationally it's not specific to the country they are based in.

> "lower investment rates," Higher investment is NEVER a bad thing. We're not talking putting money in the stock market, we're talking willingness to put money to use.

I didn't say it was a bad thing. You said,

> Like many other things affecting western countries though, it's worse in Canada since we have lower investment rates

And I am asking why that made it worse. Less investment means less investment to lose. Canada could lose 100% of their VC investment and it would have less of an impact in terms of people affected than a small trim in the US.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#177

Post by Mikeb85 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #176
Mikeb85 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "lower investment rates," Higher investment is NEVER a bad thing. We're not talking putting money in the stock market, we're talking willingness to put money to use.

I didn't say it was a bad thing. You said, > Like many other things affecting western countries though, it's worse in Canada since we have lower investment rates And I am asking why that made it worse. Less investment means less investment to lose. Canada could lose 100% of their VC investment and it would have less of an impact in terms of people affected than a small trim in the US.

> Less investment means less investment to lose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_(macroeconomics)

https://archive.unescwa.org/investment-spending

I think you're thinking of a different definition of "investment". Since this is a discussion of the economy, I'm using the "economics" definition of investment spending.

You don't "lose" infrastructure, land, machinery, etc... in a downturn. The point is that Canada spends less of our wealth on things that improve the economy. Half as much as the US (as a % of the economy).

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#178

Post by supernovae »

ghaff wrote: post #96
supernovae wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I haven’t seen this. Been through many hiring freezes and economic downturns but my salary has only ever gone up and if my employer tightened the reigns, i moved on. (here is your sign)- nothing really changed the market unless it was something such as 2008 meltdown with was systemic.

2008 didn't really effect tech that much. In dot-bomb, a lot of people were out of work for a long time and many left the industry. I was lucky to find something fairly quickly but it was a significant pay cut. (Not developer but in "tech").

None of this really supports your argument. 9/11 was the largest workforce reduction in tech as far as people leaving the industry.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#179

Post by supernovae »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #36
supernovae wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never seen entire industry hiring freezes so i’m not aware of the concern. Would rather stay on job during hiring freeze than he let go. I can sense if i need to bail without being subject to one or another.

A hiring freeze at all or most of the big FAANG companies lowers negotiable salary cap for all of us.

What?

FAANGS still offer upwards of 1m/year compensation.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#180

Post by throwawaylinux »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #177
throwawaylinux wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say it was a bad thing. You said, > Like many other things affecting western countries though, it's worse in Canada since we have lower investment rates And I am asking why that made it worse. Less investment means less investment to lose. Canada could lose 100% of their VC investment and it would have less of an impact in terms of people affected than a small trim in the US.

> Less investment means less investment to lose. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_(macroeconomics) https://archive.unescwa.org/investment-spending I think you're thinking of a different definition of "investment". Since this is a discussion of the economy, I'm using the "economics" definition of investment spending. You don't "lose" infrastructure, land, machinery, etc... in a downturn. The point is that Cana…

Well this started by talking about investment (e.g., from VC) in the software sector which carries very little infrastructure, so I don't know what you're talking about now. That may explain why you were saying costs are very high when wages are typically far below the US, you don't seem to have been talking about the same thing.
Post reply on HN