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Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

theregister.co.uk

161–170 of 193 posts

Re: Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

#161
After looking at the screenshots of the carrier-side it seemed to me that the Carrier IQ system allows much more interaction/control from the carrier side. Pending patent applications sometimes can tell you a lot about where a company is heading.

Here are a couple of quotes from Carrier IQ's pending U.S. 20090207749 USER-INITIATED REPORTING OF MOBILE COMMUNICATION SYSTEM ERRORS:

"...This configuration enables the system 200 to dynamically generate and download to a population of wireless devices rule-based data collection profiles. Data collection profiles may be generated manually by a network administrator, a software developer or other personnel involved in the operation of the network (hereinafter referred to as "network administrators"), created offline as a portion of a data analysis solution, or automatically generated based on network parameters or other events. Profiles define what information is to be collected on the devices in response to which conditions and events, as well as the conditions and events that cause the device to upload the collected information.

[0038] Conditions or events include any occurrence in the network or on the device that the device can sense, such as a call dropping or a user pressing a button on the device. Conditions and events also include the passage of time, or a request from a network administrator that the device report information back to the server. Conditions and events which cause a device to collect information or upload the collected information may generally be referred to as "triggers." "

and:

"[0080] In the exemplary embodiment, triggers may be included in the data collection directives of a data collection profile, and their inclusion causes the client to initiate, abort, and terminate data collection activity as appropriate when the associated trigger condition is invoked by the wireless device 400. A trigger invocation that matches the initiating trigger causes data collection activity to begin. A match of the terminating trigger causes the data collection activity to end, and a metrics package is then prepared for uploading. An abort trigger causes data collection activity to cease, and a metrics package is not prepared or is not uploaded. In the example used earlier, launching an application caused the client to be invoked with an "application launched" trigger event, which is matched against triggers in downloaded profiles and causes data collection activity to begin on a user's device. The user's entering of a particular key sequence, pressing of a dedicated button, or selection of a particular menu option while the application is running would cause another trigger to be activated, and the SQC would match the event to a terminating trigger in the profile, cause data collection to stop and a metrics package to be prepared and uploaded. As can be seen, the inclusion of a trigger in a profile effectively selects the condition under which a specific action associated with that profile is to be executed. The trigger is not strictly within the profile, rather it associates specific profile actions (start, stop, abort) with a specific event on the device. "

And the claims from their pending "USING MOBILE DEVICE TO CREATE ACTIVITY RECORD" application No. 20090210516 is quite interesting to browse:

1. In a communication system, a method for creating an activity record, the method comprising: recording data at a device, the data including one or more events and event-related data that describe activities of a user; uploading the data to a server, wherein the server organizes the data based the event related data; and generating an activity record using the data that can be presented to a user, wherein the activity record represents at least a partial log of the activities of the user.

2. The method of claim 1, wherein event-related data comprise one or more of: a time an event occurs; a date the event occurs; a location of the device when the event occurs; a filename of an event object associated with the event; a mobile device number (MDN); and a contact name.

3. The method of claim 2, wherein generating an activity record using the data comprises creating an entry for each of the one or more events describing where and when an event occurred.

4. The method of claim 3, further comprising presenting the activity record on a website, wherein the website is accessed by the device or using another device.

5. The method of claim 3, wherein the one or more events comprise at least one of: making or receiving a phone call; sending or receiving a message; taking a photograph; recording a device location; receiving and playing a broadcast; connecting to an 802.11 or Bluetooth access point; and using a device application.

6. The method of claim 5, wherein the location of the mobile device is recorded periodically and independently of other events. ....

Re: Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ${NERD_FREAKOUT} is what led to the enormous backlash against SOPA which very well may play an instrumental part in defeating the bill. Principles matter, meta discussions like these matter. The technology we work on don't operate in a social vacuum.

No amount of principle excuses lazy, broken analysis.

Do you have a dog in this particular fight?

Re: Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a hell of a lot more wrong with your analogy than a mere "difference in intent".

I'm interested in why you think that. I wrote the comment in good faith. I'm asking you to clarify also in good faith.

Having reviewed your other comments in this discussion, I must say that I do not see the point in continuing this.

Re: Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ${NERD_FREAKOUT} is what led to the enormous backlash against SOPA which very well may play an instrumental part in defeating the bill. Principles matter, meta discussions like these matter. The technology we work on don't operate in a social vacuum.

No amount of principle excuses lazy, broken analysis.

Are you a Carrier IQ shill or something?

Re: Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a dog in this particular fight?

Yes. HN is becoming stupider by the day, and I like HN.

Well, in the interest of keeping the signal/noise ratio high, here's my view on things.

When someone uses a mobile phone, they generally have the assumption that, unless they consent to it, third parties do not have access to their data (the government being a different story I won't go into). When I use GMail, I consent to Google reading my email via automated algorithms, and targeting ads at me through that. If I have anything important, I use email that I host myself or, if it's really top-secret, an anonymous throwaway account through Tor.

However, from what this video demonstrates, CarrierIQ is violating the basic principle of this by capturing and potentially logging your personal data without your knowledge or consent. Furthermore, it's violating the assumption that most people have that their passwords and such are not captured by applications other than the ones that they are entered into.

Now, we don't know for sure whether all this information is sent off to their servers and logged or not. However, in my personal opinion, the fact that this information is CAPTURED AT ALL is a serious problem, when combined with the fact that you are not informed of this!

Re: Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

#167
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read any of the articles or watch the video? The guy shows `adb logcat` running and showing CarrierIQ logging keystrokes with their ASCII codes. (edit: I make no claims about the transmission of data. I merely took "collection" and assumed that if the app was recording (even if not persistently) keystrokes on my phone that it counted as collection. Further, the fact that it can is enough to piss me off, espec…

Adb logcat showing the usb debugging output isn't really the same as storing on a file or uploading to a remote server, is it? They're obviously doing bad stuff, but I see no evidence of uploading your keystrokes

Neither drivebyacct2 nor the video claims the data is stored. Carrier IQ is collecting keystroke data, which you said they were not doing. The video clearly shows, when the user presses the "1" key:

  com.htc.android.iqagent.action.ui01
  actionUI01:49,0
where 49 is the keycode for the "1" key. This means the Carrier IQ code is called to collect and process this event information.

We just don't know what the code is doing with this information. Perhaps it is simply updating statistics and discarding it. So I guess your argument with drivebyacct2 is on the definition of "collecting"...

Re: Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an important point that I think some people are forgetting. I use Verizon. They already have access to all of my text messages. I send my text messages to Verizon , who then forwards them on to the person I'm talking to. Just as Google first gets my email.

It is unfortunately a point that the contradicts the thread narrative that casts a hapless, poorly-marketed analytics company as Big Brother incarnate, so nobody's going to pay attention to it.

They put backdoors on basically every phone in secret, threatened the guy who outed them with a lawsuit and are perfectly capable of snooping on everything, whether they do so or not.

What do you know about them that makes you trust them?

Re: Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

#169
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of principle excuses lazy, broken analysis.

Are you a Carrier IQ shill or something?

He can't be.

He's one of the people who has been on HN forever. He's often a bit contrarian, but I don't doubt that he believes what he says, even when I strongly disagree with it. And if you scroll up, you'll see that I've already made clear my disagreements on this one.

Re: Secret app on millions of phones logs key taps

#170
post #59

I'm so glad that my iPhone only lets Apple spy on me.

Apple doesn't spy on you. There is no comparable keylogger on iOS.

Actually, this same thing was found on iOS. That said, it doesn't appear to have a keylogger on iOS for some reason. See here:

http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737

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