Two things going on here: 1. First, I'm a bit baffled by some of the responses along the lines of "Amazon should just own their mistake". Sorry, but in the real world, "finders keepers" rarely applies (unless you're talking about crypto, but I digress...). I would certainly want a bug corrected if it were in my favor, and if a bug went the other way, I might need to re-evaluate my company satisfaction based on my new…
Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
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Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wasn't just Steve Jobs. It's never just one person. Many people enable punitive & regressive decisions like that.
This is what's great about being a CEO! Things go bad? Ship is too big to steer, the failure is on the whole company, the CEO didn't even know, they swear! Things go right? Obviously it was all the hard work of the CEO they definitely deserve millions in bonuses! It was Steve Jobs, so was the wage-fixing. They were all so stupid about it they literally got busted doing it. Doesn't matter what the company makes, only…
It doesn't trickle down. Some (most) people agree to work for someone in exchange for money, rather than go off and be CEOs and have people work for them.
Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
#93Amazon’s real innovation isn’t a cloud service company or a logistics business. The innovation is on how to squeeze every once of labor and value out of a human being, and how to do this legally, without damaging customers’ or public opinion of the company, at massive scale.
As a leader, I was coached on how to motivate my employees by selling promotions as a carrot, even though my leadership had no interest in seeing through that person gets promoted. It was lies and gaslighting.
I was coached on detaching myself from employees and their well being, so it would make it easier to do the right thing for the company.
I was pressured to get onto specific managers who weren’t meeting their attrition targets.
The idea that amazon would walk back compensation targets is no surprise to me.
Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
#94This is the Cost of having a subpar HRM product. What does Amazon uses?
[1]: https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/28/amazon_canned_workday...
Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
#95Two things going on here: 1. First, I'm a bit baffled by some of the responses along the lines of "Amazon should just own their mistake". Sorry, but in the real world, "finders keepers" rarely applies (unless you're talking about crypto, but I digress...). I would certainly want a bug corrected if it were in my favor, and if a bug went the other way, I might need to re-evaluate my company satisfaction based on my new…
> Sorry, but in the real world, "finders keepers" rarely applies If Bob signs a contract for Alice to paint a fence for $800 and a copy-paste error transfers her $1000 instead, yes. But if the copy-paste error happened before the contract was signed? Leading to Bob promising Alice $1000 and signing a contract promising it? Then in all probability, Bob will end up paying the contract amount.
But yes: if these were contractors Amazon had hired it would be very different.
Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
#96So it's likely that previous bonuses/raises were also based on 'old' stock prices. But since Amazon stock was (pretty much) always increasing, this means that those bonuses were consistently lower than what they should've been. Of course it's only an issue now when the opposite is true, and is costing Amazon rather than the employees.
When I was last there (albeit 6 years ago), following reviews managers determined what your new “total yearly comp” would be. Base pay was pretty low compared to industry, but RSUs were used to make up the difference based on the price on a certain date with a 4-year vesting period, distributed quarterly (16 distributions). For example, if your total comp required 20k extra per year and the stock price was $100, you’…
Yep, luck is only for the capitalists, not for the plebes. Shouldn't it be the case that if a worker was part of a major turnaround they should reap the rewards? Instead this would just make sure they didn't really benefit. If this were sr mgmt they would claim the increase should justify _extra_ comp as they did such a good job to make the stock go up.
Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
#97Two things going on here: 1. First, I'm a bit baffled by some of the responses along the lines of "Amazon should just own their mistake". Sorry, but in the real world, "finders keepers" rarely applies (unless you're talking about crypto, but I digress...). I would certainly want a bug corrected if it were in my favor, and if a bug went the other way, I might need to re-evaluate my company satisfaction based on my new…
BTW, I've had stock options that were never above water.
Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sorry, but in the real world, "finders keepers" rarely applies If Bob signs a contract for Alice to paint a fence for $800 and a copy-paste error transfers her $1000 instead, yes. But if the copy-paste error happened before the contract was signed? Leading to Bob promising Alice $1000 and signing a contract promising it? Then in all probability, Bob will end up paying the contract amount.
Compensation for at-will employees does not constitute a contract. That's what "at-will" means, basically. In the breakdown of good faith interaction, the remedy (for both sides) is largely limited to the ability to walk away. But yes: if these were contractors Amazon had hired it would be very different.
An at-will employee and their employer contract that for each hour of work (or each ~week salaried) performed by employee on instructions from employer, employer will pay to employee $X.
Just because such a contract doesn't contain any term indicating the length of time an employee will work doesn't make it less of a contract.
As further evidence, if at-will employment were not a contractual agreement there'd be no recourse for the employee to recover unpaid wages. And yet unpaid wages are recoverable.
Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given a certain dollar amount (e.g. X% of salary), the number of RSUs to grant is calculated by dividing the dollar amount by the market price of the stock. There are two common ways to calculate the market price of the stock, and the difference comes down to this: 1. The market price of the stock is determined at the time of the grant, and; 2. The market price of the stock is determined at the time the RSUs vest. If…
In my company there are multiple important days: 1) Find out RSU bonus value : "you get 20% of your salary worth of RSUs" 2) Grant Date: Company Calculates the number of RSUs, issues them, and starts Vesting schedule. 3) Vesting days: Some of the RSUs become vested and can be sold by the employee. >The market price of the stock is determined at the time the RSUs vest. What is the point of giving stock priced on the v…
An excellent question, somewhat epitomized by the late Mitch Hedberg’s joke: “I think a gift certificate is a bad gift. You take money that is good everywhere…” Same here, it’s no better than cash, only it’s a PITA to convert it to cash if you want cash.
That being said, there are a few scenarios I have seen that fit the pattern:
1. Some companies have an ESPP program where some cash is deducted from each pay and placed in escrow. At regular intervals, the accumulated money is turned into shares at market value, and the employee receives the shares. There is usually a modest discount involved, e.g. 15%. If the employee sells the day the shares vest, they harvest 15% of the value less taxes. Or the employee can HODL, as they see fit.
Even without a discount, some employees may prefer an ESPP to making their own investments in the company stock. There is the convenience of having the money deducted at source, many people find that an easier way to save than relying on discipline.
2. The company is cash-poor and pays some comp in stock because they have shares in their treasury. One can understand why some companies would want to do this, without agreeing that employees would prefer this to cash.
Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
In your compensation letter it may say a $ value but it’s just a formulaic presentation based on the fixed # of RSUs. You’re not compensated by “You’re getting $20,000 in however many RSUs that can buy at the time”. It’s “you’re getting 100 RSUs” and then whenever you get them your compensation letter states their current $ value.
Not Amazon, but when I receive RSUs it is denominated in the dollar amount. In a year when the first part vests the dollars are converted to stock units based on the price at that moment. Thus I do not know how many units of stock I am receiving until the first vesting event, because I don't know what the price will be in a year.