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Learning Is Remembering

saveall.ai

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Re: Learning Is Remembering

#111

Post by jjslocum3 »

The unsuccessful learning technique the author describes at the beginning of the article is essentially the LIFO "stack" data structure/algo: You learn until you encounter a gap in your understanding, upon which you push your current material onto the stack, fix the knowledge gap, then pop the parent from the stack (with additional pushing/popping along the way, as needed).

Leaving the "working-memory-max=4" hypothesis aside (I'm sure it's all true), the "stack learning" paradigm has been hugely successful for me post-classroom, and (amusingly) specifically with Quantum Mechanics.

About ten years ago, I tried to understand what QM was about, by doing exactly what the article describes, starting at Wikipedia's "Quantum Mechanics" page. I got the exact result described: no understanding of the material.

However, the search eventually led me to ocw.mit.edu, where the same LIFO-based stack learning was super effective. Along the way, a refresher calculus course (also from OCW) got pushed onto then popped from the stack, as did the course "Vibrations and Waves" and the entire Walter Lewin lecture series (he has since been removed from OCW, but can be found on youtube).

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#112

Post by p-christ »

weekendvampire wrote: post #93
tianshuo wrote: post #60

Calling learning remembering, is like calling a computer a hard drive. Sorry, but, remembering is just one part, although important part of learning. There is loads of difference between remembering the words of a foreign language and fluently speaking it. The process of learning is complicated, eg. good teaching is not giving the final answers to learner, which should seem faster, but letting the learner arrive at t…

I think the point being made is that remembering is a huge if not key aspect of learning anything, and people underestimate the importance of memorization. Maybe that title is a bit misleading, could've been "No serious learning can happen without memorization" but that doesn't flow as well.

yes exactly

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#113

Post by kurthr »

necessary wrote: post #69

As someone who has been using Anki for the past 4 years to learn Japanese and now Chinese, I've recently found that the initial "learning" step is not that hard. (i.e., given 辞書, I remember "dictionary") What is hard is keeping the content I've learned, _learned_, for more than a day. So now I'm wondering, is my initial "learning" process wrong? Since definitions are fairly simple and I find them easy to remember at…

It seems like you've gone pretty far. I assume you started with something like radicals (constructive strokes) and built up to more complex Kanji/pictograms. I know in speaking to native Mandarin speakers that they see stroke order in the characters and were intrigued that I don't see that in english. Often we just learn the sound/typed elements (e.g. pinyin), which I guess might be like modern asian kids.

Have you looked at something like wanikani.com with the mnemonics or some of the more historical derivations of the different characters? Those might help build an internal story for why those characters mean what they do. As an adult, that helped me.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#114

Post by p-christ »

swantonb wrote: post #105
p-christ wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i wish school taught me how to learn instead of me having to wait until i was 25 and doing a free coursera course

Have you seen any SaaS or consumer products that focus on "how to learn?" and "digesting information" aspect?. I'm legit asking because my team is working on that exact idea with mental models and AI. If you are curious, we'd appreciate candid feedback from you. Just launched pre-beta on Product Hunt today. https://www.producthunt.com/posts/neble Thanks

> Have you seen any SaaS or consumer products that focus on "how to learn?" and "digesting information" aspect?

Yes Save All helps with that in a way

https://saveall.ai/

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#115

Post by colechristensen »

tianshuo wrote: post #60

Calling learning remembering, is like calling a computer a hard drive. Sorry, but, remembering is just one part, although important part of learning. There is loads of difference between remembering the words of a foreign language and fluently speaking it. The process of learning is complicated, eg. good teaching is not giving the final answers to learner, which should seem faster, but letting the learner arrive at t…

Learning is a lot of things, fact collection is one small part.

Learning is mostly model building. Building a model to predict future sensory inputs from past sensory inputs. Building a model to predict future sensory inputs from past sensory inputs and control inputs.

Learning is not just recording sensory inputs for future recall, it is taking them and building useful abstractions with them.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#116

Post by cloogshicer »

There is a difference between remembering something (like a fact) and a deep understanding of a concept.

Let me give you an example in programming: I sometimes have to google for the names of functions I've already used a hundred times. Sometimes extremely simple functions (just a while ago it was list.size() in Java), only because I can't remember the name of the function, but of course I understand the concept - the length of a list/array. I just can't remember if it's length(), or size() or count(), or whatever.

This deep understanding feels quite different from simple memorization. It feels more like something in my body, similar to muscle memory or like playing a piano piece. It's something I feel I will never forget.

I'd love to learn more about this kind of understanding. For years I've tried to find good reading about it, but much has been disappointing.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#117

Post by inphovore »

Not really.

There are different learning styles. I find memorization very difficult (poor passive recall), yet my comprehension is superior (aiding deduction.)

I find many with “photographic memory” to be sadly inadequate at comprehending and exploiting interrelationships.

There is something like dexterity which develops in the mind, an impression left which is not exactly remembering, yet definitely stored in the brain.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#118

Post by fairity »

Hendrikto wrote: post #109
fairity wrote: post #96

It seems like learning how to learn and learning what matters in the world (and therein how to be happy) are the two most important things to learn. Yet, for some reason, our standard school curriculum don't touch on either subject. Why not?

> learning how to learn This is taught, at least at German schools. It‘s just that nobody pays attention. > learning what matters in the world (and therein how to be happy) This is way too subjective to be part of a curriculum. Trying would border on indoctrination.

> This is taught, at least at German schools. It‘s just that nobody pays attention.

Interesting, is the curriculum anywhere online? Curious to take a look.

> This is way too subjective to be part of a curriculum. Trying would border on indoctrination.

I see it as the opposite of indoctrination. Teaching students how to choose their own values (and how happiness is a function of your values) gives them more freedom not less. You wouldn't want to push any specific value framework, but you do want to teach students that it's possible to choose your own adventure, instead of getting indoctrinated by your society's prevailing values. A curriculum such as:

- What are values?

- The connection between happiness and values

- Value traits (e.g. extrinsic vs intrinsic, behavioral vs situational)

- Value prioritization and hierarchies

- Different cultures and their distinct value frameworks

- Practical applications (e.g. learning how to change your values; trying out different values for a day/week)

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#119

Post by p-christ »

cloogshicer wrote: post #116

There is a difference between remembering something (like a fact) and a deep understanding of a concept. Let me give you an example in programming: I sometimes have to google for the names of functions I've already used a hundred times. Sometimes extremely simple functions (just a while ago it was list.size() in Java), only because I can't remember the name of the function, but of course I understand the concept - th…

I think it feels different because that knowledge is more deeply ingrained with what you already know. That knowledge has many connections and relationships with other knowledge you have. Whereas the name of a function is more like a leaf node, it isn't connected to very much and i think this is the source of the different feelings you describe.

To expand on this a bit - our memories maintain "schemas" of knowledge and whenever we learn something new it gets slotted into our "schema". The better something fits into our schema the easier it is to remember. I think if you googled schemas you'll be able to find more material on this

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#120

Post by p-christ »

thenerdhead wrote: post #45
p-christ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning styles are basically a myth actually. It's been shown we all learn in roughly the same way. Check out some of the research mentioned here https://www.techlearning.com/news/busting-the-myth-of-learni... > People would have written books about learning that glorified this concept. There are lots of books on it actually. Make It Stick is my favourite book on this, you should try it!

> Learning styles are basically a myth actually. You have a preference of how you learn, no? It's not a myth if there's perennial truth to it. > There are lots of books on it actually. Make It Stick is my favourite book on this, you should try it! I've read many titles including this one. Not everything is going to be "learned" with spaced repetition, interweaving, retrieval, and varied practice. These are great mode…

> You have a preference of how you learn, no? It's not a myth if there's perennial truth to it.

I might have an emotional preference but there's no good evidence that different people learn better in very different ways

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