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Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

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Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#801

Post by LudwigNagasena »

behnamoh wrote: post #451
lolinder wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like there's a legend that this was the case, but January has been the first month of the year through all of recorded history, and Julius Caesar's version was no different. EDIT: Because there's a lot of confusion in several replies I thought I'd clarify: February was the second month in Julius Caesar's calendar. Romans in the Republic describe the month as being at some point the last month in the calendar…

As a Persian, I always found the Gregorian calendar weird. In Iran and some other countries, Jalali calendar is used which is much more straightforward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalali_calendar The Iranian calendar (also known as Persian calendar or the Jalaali Calendar) is a solar calendar currently used in Iran and Afghanistan. It is observation-based, rather than rule-based, beginning each year on the vernal…

> For example, the first day of Fall is actually the first day of "Mehr" (the 7th month). For some reason, the Gregorian calendar has it on Sep. 22.

That’s just a convention. In Russia we use “meteorological” convention, for example, and so each season starts on the 1st of some month (March, June, September, December). It is off from the astronomical convention by ≈20 days and it is off from reality by whatever depending on your location and your feelings on what constitutes seasons.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#802

Post by tshaddox »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #620
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just because something has historical reasons does mean it makes sence today. There is no reason for the Moon to have any place in a modern calendar. You already have 2 values: year and day, and they do not divide nicely. But they serve a practical purpose in a modern society, so we have to deal with them. The moon does not, but adds a third factor.

I disagree. Moon is the closest celestial body to earth and we have historically been able to make very accurate observations and calculations based on its orbit and waxing and waning phases.

I think the point is that our current calendar does have historical roots involving the moon but isn’t actually useful for predicting moon phases, tides, etc. and thus is not in fact an important mechanism for modern calendars.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#803

Post by LudwigNagasena »

geraneum wrote: post #759
thaumasiotes wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's also precisely set to follow seasons. For example, the first day of Fall is actually the first day of "Mehr" (the 7th month). For some reason, the Gregorian calendar has it on Sep. 22. This doesn't really work; the first day of Fall differs from place to place according to the specifics of the local climate.

That actually works pretty well and has worked well for thousands of years for what it was designed to do. The calendar should not necessarily follow the local climate of every region, as that can vary each year and throughout the time. They had to fix a reference point for seasons, and they have chosen the Equinox. This is a sensible reference point (see refs). But also it could be anything else as long as it's meas…

Calendar seasons are mainly used to talk about the weather. Using Equinox as a fixed reference point is not any more precise than using meteorological convention wrt thermal seasons.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#804

Post by tshaddox »

jes5199 wrote: post #619
db48x wrote: post #596

The Qeng Ho in Deepness in the Sky had the right idea. They traveled from planet to planet in STL ships, and counted time purely in seconds. They had to account for relativity, but nothing else. A short task might take a kilosecond (about 16 minutes), a watch schedule might plan for activities covering a megasecond (close enough to a month for you and me), while a gigasecond is a good chunk of your life (32 years). "…

ah yes, "seconds", the "second minúte part of an hour", i.e. 1/60th of 1/60th of 1/24th of the average time it takes the Earth to rotate towards Sol. very sensible default.

Don’t forget to point out the absurd arbitrariness the kilo part. Base ten number systems are just as arbitrary as the rest of this stuff we’re mocking.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#805

Post by bipson »

octobus2021 wrote: post #63

This is absolutely hilarious, and despite being long form, fits Twitter format very well, with each chunk funnier than the last :) A few notes: - Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week; - US (and maybe one or two English-speaking countries) are the only ones using 12h time, the rest of the world uses 24hrs, however 12h _sometimes_ is…

> - US (and maybe one or two English-speaking countries) are the only ones using 12h time, the rest of the world uses 24hrs, however 12h _sometimes_ is used conversationally;

For German speaking countries: rather always#. In fact, you don't even say 3 PM. Just "drei". I think everything from 8 AM to 7 PM is considered "business hours" - and everything else needs clarification ("4 in the morning").

And we call 0:00 "12 Uhr Mitternacht" as well, I think nobody says "0 Uhr". But at least writing it down makes sense.

# Nobody I knows really uses "15 Uhr" to say 3 PM (people might sometimes do, but I never hear it, it sounds wrong, maybe "nerdy")

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#806

Post by bjarneh »

octobus2021 wrote: post #63

This is absolutely hilarious, and despite being long form, fits Twitter format very well, with each chunk funnier than the last :) A few notes: - Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week; - US (and maybe one or two English-speaking countries) are the only ones using 12h time, the rest of the world uses 24hrs, however 12h _sometimes_ is…

> the rest of the world uses 24hrs, however 12h _sometimes_ is used conversationally;

Here in Norway we use 24 hours when writing; but we use 12 hour system when speaking - if that makes any sense?

I.e. we would say: "Vi spiser middag klokka fem (5)" [We eat dinner at five o'clock]; but we'd write it with 17 typically. We never use the terms AM/PM but can occasionally specify daytime/nighttime if it's uncertain which of the two we are talking about. I.e. "Jeg kom hjem fra jobb klokka fem (5) om morgenen" [I came home from work at five in the morning].

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#807

Post by DocTomoe »

Symbiote wrote: post #423
sqs wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week; What do you mean by this? I mean, what behaviors do US people exhibit to show this to be true? I was born in the US and have lived here almost my entire life. I consider Monday to be the first day of the week, and I haven't seen anything in US culture to indicate that other people disagree or…

Printing all calendars and design all calendar software with Sunday in the first column is a big clue that most Americans consider Sunday the start of the week. In Europe, printed calendars and apps have Monday in the first column.

Being European, I prefer "Sunday in column 1" calendars.

Not for religious reasons or because I consider Sunday to actually be the first day of the week, but for practical reasons: It gives me a clearer understanding of the workweek. It moves Wednesday (in my language called "middle of the week") into the week's center. It deemphasizes the weekend for planning (and thus for planning work), making them better rest days.

YMMV.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#808

Post by anjbe »

mcv wrote: post #794
SamBam wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the word "Sabbath" refers to different things to different Christians. Consider the old nursery rhyme, Monday's Child , which ends with Friday's child is loving and giving / Saturday's child works hard for a living. / And the child born on the Sabbath day Is bonny and blithe, good and gay.

I'm not familiar with that nursery rhyme, but it sounds like it's based on the same misunderstanding that lead to ISO 8601.

I’m actually really interested in this. Clearly in Jesus’s time the Hebrew week went Sunday–Saturday. That definition remained at least for long enough to make into Ecclesiastical Latin and further into, e.g., Portuguese (segunda-feira, etc.). So why does ISO 8601 go Monday–Sunday? Was it codifying existing practice in Europe? When did that practice begin? Was America colonized before Europe switched to Monday–Sunday, or is America’s Sunday–Saturday a fundamentalist reversion to something more Biblically accurate?

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#809

Post by midasuni »

mcv wrote: post #369
octobus2021 wrote: post #63

This is absolutely hilarious, and despite being long form, fits Twitter format very well, with each chunk funnier than the last :) A few notes: - Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week; - US (and maybe one or two English-speaking countries) are the only ones using 12h time, the rest of the world uses 24hrs, however 12h _sometimes_ is…

This is incorrect. The US is hardly the only country where people consider Sunday to be the first day of the week. Anyone with some understanding of the history of our weekdays does so, and that historical understanding is not limited to Americans. It's also not true that the US is the only country to use 12h time; many countries do. Including mine. If you need to write time without ambiguity, you use the 24h format,…

What country is that? I’ve only really seen 12h time in America and it’s colonies.
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