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Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

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Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#761
I'd be curious to know what countries don't start the year January 1st and where the origin of their chosen day comes from.

I know China's new year is different by a ~3 weeks?

Also, I only know a little USA and Japanese culture but it's interesting various calendar related things like where I grew up, SoCal, elementary, middle, and high school school started 2nd week in September. College also started around the same time. In Japan it starts first week of April and so do new jobs for college grads (Japan generally makes a distinction between no-experience college grads and experienced employees and job listing will often say which one the job is for)

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#762

> "uh, it's supposed to be the birth of a religious leader, but they got the math wrong so it's off by 4 years, if he existed at all." > "if? You based your calendar off the birth date of someone you're not sure exists?" I find it quite offensive. Not all scholars agree that Jesus was raised from dead, but the existence of Jesus is accepted even by non-Christian scholars. > Virtually all scholars of antiquity agree t…

Treating someone with respect is not the same thing as believing what they believe.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#763
post #724
post #596

The Qeng Ho in Deepness in the Sky had the right idea. They traveled from planet to planet in STL ships, and counted time purely in seconds. They had to account for relativity, but nothing else. A short task might take a kilosecond (about 16 minutes), a watch schedule might plan for activities covering a megasecond (close enough to a month for you and me), while a gigasecond is a good chunk of your life (32 years). "…

Except it would be absolutely impractical to actually use in practice by any species/societies that have to sleep on a regular basis and in general need cycles. If all your "natural cycles" happen to fit well into base-10, well, that's great. Otherwise, you need to base your cycles on something else, which is exactly what calendars do. And, just by the way, the Gregorian calendar is bad and messy, but the ideas it's…

> So it is unlikely that magnitude-1000 time measurement with no cycles in-between can work for them either.

Oh, maybe I didn’t describe it very well. They use precise scheduling whenever possible, and use kiloseconds and megaseconds in casual conversation. For example, you might be scheduled to go on–shift at 1664204400, and every shift is 30 kiloseconds, meaning you go off–shift at 1664234400. Of course the book never gave exact timestamps like that, it only discussed shifts and watches in general terms.

In casual conversation they use “kiloseconds” or “thousand seconds” the same way we use phrases like “half an hour”. For example: “We got the same scut-work shift starting in two thousand seconds. I thought we could go down to the bactry together, trade gossip.” They also use shorter approximations, like “hundred seconds” the way we might use minutes: ‘In his huds, he could see his ships climbing slowly up the sky, still hidden from the naked eye by the nearest tenement. “Another four hundred seconds sir, and you’ll see them come out past the roof just about there.” He pointed at the spot.’

They just don’t have a calendar based on astronomical cycles. When your STL ship needs 400 years to complete a single journey, and each crewmember spends a very small percentage of that time awake and on watch, you don’t need to care about cycles or calendars. And since each of the hundreds of star system that humans have colonized has a completely different calendar based on whatever astronomical cycles are available locally, so Earth’s calendar just doesn’t matter very much.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#764

Couldn't this whole thread just be condensed to: we have a thing called culture which is not completely rational or efficient? I'm sure the aliens would get that - they would probably have something similar, albeit with different irrationalities and inefficiencies.

You don't even have to introduce culture. "We built a simple time system a long time ago. Some of its initial assumptions were wrong and we've been patching it up as we go ever since". I'm sure the aliens have a word for "technical debt". Also, dividing the day into 24hs is kind of genius. Sure, 10 is nice, but good luck dividing it neatly into 3 parts.

It's a shame though that a circle is not 24° (or 240°) instead of 360°. Having °'" match h'" would have been cool.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#765
Actual alien: yeah this is quite common with calendars. They tend to have a lot of accumulated rules like that.

Twitter guy: oh damn, I was planning to do a humorous thread about how a super-rational alien civilisation would be surprised by it. :(

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#766
post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week; Does anyone know why? This has always seemed a bit weird to me. I mean the US is a fairly religious country and it's pretty much known to anyone that Sunday is the 7th day in Christianity? And on the first day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the first day from all His…

Ignoring the religious angle entirely, I've always thought it was weird that people consider Monday the first day of the week, because to me, Sunday and Saturday are at either "end" of the week, hence they are called "weekend" days. If Monday is day 1, then Saturday is day 6 and Sunday is day 7, so Saturday is no longer a weekend. (Yes, I know that you can argue it a different way such that it still makes sense with…

It is more logical for Monday to be first, because it comes right after end of the last week - week-end. The last two days are weekend - end of the week.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#769

Actual alien: yeah this is quite common with calendars. They tend to have a lot of accumulated rules like that. Twitter guy: oh damn, I was planning to do a humorous thread about how a super-rational alien civilisation would be surprised by it. :(

Way to rain on their parade.

But yes, any advanced civilization would have stacks upon stacks of rules which contradict and complicate things. There's just no way around it.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#770
post #747

This is absolutely hilarious, and despite being long form, fits Twitter format very well, with each chunk funnier than the last :) A few notes: - Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week; - US (and maybe one or two English-speaking countries) are the only ones using 12h time, the rest of the world uses 24hrs, however 12h _sometimes_ is…

> Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week; Not correct, as others have pointed out. Regardless, why is it more or less logical for any particular day to be considered the start of the week? Hell, it seems that even in several countries that use Monday as the first day of the week, the names of the day reflect that Monday is the second…

Do you consider Sunday to be part of the weekend?
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