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Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

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Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#751
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week /Officially/ almost everyone has standardized on ISO 8601 where Monday = 1 and Sunday = 7. But unofficially, not really. The week is still popularly understood to start on Sunday in English Canada, and probably some other parts of the English-speaking world. A quick check of Wikipedia suggests…

> Sunday = 1 Animals. Absolutely barbaric. Everybody knows we should index lists starting at 0. /s

I remember seeing API that accepted both 0 and 7 as Sunday.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#752
post #602

An interesting aside the Cotsworth Calendar is such an obvious approach to the months problem it makes me wonder why it was not adopted in the first place. We have 13 months of 28 days each. The 9th is always a Monday the 19th is always a Thursday. "Two months from now" always means the same thing and always means the same number of days. The extra day is New Years Day. It's a holiday and does not belong to any month…

13 is prime and thus quarterly planning gets complicated. Quarterly planning is there because of the seasons and agriculture.

Agriculture for who though? There's plenty of places where there aren't 4 seasons.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#753
I think I pieced this together from Wikipedia at one point, but don't have the exact ref: The strangeness that December sounds like it should be month ten comes from the fact that in Roman times, it was the tenth and last month. After that there was just.. not much going on until the new year started and in fact it was actually a political question as to which day March started on! Does anyone know this more precisely and/or have a link?

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#754

I didn't appreciate until recently that the calendar we live by today was personally designed by Julius Caesar. Like not by some forgotten technocrats incidentally during his time, but Julius Caesar himself as a subject matter expert, as a side-project. With consultation, certainly, but by his initiative, from long-standing engagement with the problem in one of his early jobs from long before he was a main character…

People mostly remember Caesar as a ruler, however in 63 BC (5 years before the Gallic wars) Caeser managed to get himself elected as Pontifex Maximus (chief high priest). Adjusting the calendar was as part of the duties of the Pontifex Maximus. They decided public holidays and they decided whether to add an "intercalary month" (at the end of February which used to be the last month). There are many interesting things…

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Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#755
post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week; Does anyone know why? This has always seemed a bit weird to me. I mean the US is a fairly religious country and it's pretty much known to anyone that Sunday is the 7th day in Christianity? And on the first day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the first day from all His…

Ignoring the religious angle entirely, I've always thought it was weird that people consider Monday the first day of the week, because to me, Sunday and Saturday are at either "end" of the week, hence they are called "weekend" days. If Monday is day 1, then Saturday is day 6 and Sunday is day 7, so Saturday is no longer a weekend. (Yes, I know that you can argue it a different way such that it still makes sense with…

The argument I’ve heard against this is that Sunday is a week”end” day, not a week “start” day - here interpreting “end” as “terminator” rather than something like “bookend”

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, unix timestamps are still tied to UTC, which has leap seconds for some reason... I would prefer if we had a few seconds of an offset with Zulu "GMT" Time (pardon the double acronym).

Unix time doesn’t include leap seconds.

As I said 6 months ago, "Naw that would make way too much sense": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30855416

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#757

> "uh, it's supposed to be the birth of a religious leader, but they got the math wrong so it's off by 4 years, if he existed at all." > "if? You based your calendar off the birth date of someone you're not sure exists?" I find it quite offensive. Not all scholars agree that Jesus was raised from dead, but the existence of Jesus is accepted even by non-Christian scholars. > Virtually all scholars of antiquity agree t…

>Not all scholars agree that Jesus was raised from dead, Are there any scholars that do agree to this?

Well yes, many, but they're Christian scholars.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#758
post #154

I find the implication that aliens are rational and have no subrational concepts due to tradition and habit interesting, as it sort of implies that these kinds of outgrowths are not necessary and can just be done away with. The narrator starts from a position of not wanting to legitimize or historicize beyond reductive statements like "some ancient civilization did XYZ". I'll admit that I skimmed through the last par…

At the end of the story they isolate us from them and prevent us from reaching the stars, I don't think the implication is that this is just due to the weird calendar system. I think its more than that, our inability to rid ourselves from our tradition and religious heritage has more profound implications. We don't look at things rationally and make decisions to improve ourselves. The aliens may have gone through similar steps in their evolution of their civilization so they probably know what it *means* if a post-interstellar species still uses a gods birthday to count time.

We aren't making any collective rational decisions yet, we build elaborate structures around tradition that more or less managed to reduce our collective human suffering at least in the northern hemisphere. It took us hundreds of years to rid ourselves from slavery and it will probably take us hundreds more to figure out that murdering billions of animals is bad for example. We might never figure out how to prevent poverty, inequality, racism, imperialism, colonialism and war. We probably make earth uninhabitable way before then anyhow.

I can see why aliens want to isolate and not want to talk to us. Not because of the calendar system we use, but because of what it represents.

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Persian, I always found the Gregorian calendar weird. In Iran and some other countries, Jalali calendar is used which is much more straightforward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalali_calendar The Iranian calendar (also known as Persian calendar or the Jalaali Calendar) is a solar calendar currently used in Iran and Afghanistan. It is observation-based, rather than rule-based, beginning each year on the vernal…

> It's also precisely set to follow seasons. For example, the first day of Fall is actually the first day of "Mehr" (the 7th month). For some reason, the Gregorian calendar has it on Sep. 22. This doesn't really work; the first day of Fall differs from place to place according to the specifics of the local climate.

That actually works pretty well and has worked well for thousands of years for what it was designed to do. The calendar should not necessarily follow the local climate of every region, as that can vary each year and throughout the time. They had to fix a reference point for seasons, and they have chosen the Equinox. This is a sensible reference point (see refs). But also it could be anything else as long as it's measurable and verifiable independently and does not change based on location.

The same works for the clocks. People in Sweden still use the same 24-hour clock, even though they have vastly different daylight conditions in different seasons.

The Persian calendar is actually our most precise [1] calendars to date, and it owes its precision to tying the calendar to astronomical seasons [2].

[1] https://www.timeanddate.com/date/perfect-calendar.html [2] https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/persian-calendar.html

Re: Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we explain our calendar

#760

This is absolutely hilarious, and despite being long form, fits Twitter format very well, with each chunk funnier than the last :) A few notes: - Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week; - US (and maybe one or two English-speaking countries) are the only ones using 12h time, the rest of the world uses 24hrs, however 12h _sometimes_ is…

> Per my knowledge US is the only country which stubbornly (and illogically) considers Sunday to be the first day of the week;

In a few EU countries people have started implying Sunday could somehow be the start (even though they are protestant societies! Makes no sense), so I think the US is leaking lunacy to the rest of the world.

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