Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring • Hacker News Board

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#591

Post by Kwpolska » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 4:46 PM UTC

vladvasiliu wrote: post #554

Kwpolska wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows' HiDPI does have some glitches (like the mouse positioning thing), but most apps work seamlessly (including browsers, Electron, and IDEs) or reasonably well (Microsoft Office). Also, Windows supports any scaling level, whereas macOS only supports 100% and 200%, which makes it easier to mask any sort of issues or bugs (pixel-doubling looks less blurry than scaling things up by 125%). Many (most?) 13-15 inch Wi…

MacOS supports intermediary DPIs, it has multiple "looks like resolutions". You may have to press ALT while clicking "scaled". But you can't (easily?) set any arbitrary scaling, like 123%. You can on Windows, but it recommends against it. And I've noticed that most apps work fine at 150%, but many feel weird at 125% (which is also "standard"). The Windows mouse thing has been somewhat fixed in Win11 22H2, where you c…

> MacOS supports intermediary DPIs, it has multiple "looks like resolutions". You may have to press ALT while clicking "scaled".

The “looks like resolutions” work by setting your screen to the resolution it claims to be multiplied by two, and then downsampling the image to your native size. Depending on the resolutions involved, the screen might feel a bit blurry. On Windows, setting an intermediary scale changes the way the UI is drawn, while keeping your native resolution.

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#592

Post by doetoe » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

dapids wrote: post #388

paulcarroty wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree, used to use Dell Inspiron and some cheap HPs, found nothing extraordinary.

Cheap HPs are not elitebooks for one, and two an inspiron is not an XPS. I've used both elitebook and XPS with zero issues.

I think the point was that even these cheaper consumer laptops worked fine with Linux

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#593

Post by bee_rider » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

nikau wrote: post #541

pjmlp wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except on Linux usually most environments stop at the config file part. And if a GUI tool happens to exist, it isn't kept in sync with the file format.

Yes - ideally there should be a standard library for this. There is no reason the GUI cant update the config file and refresh from it when it updates.

A convention for writing JSON, YAML, or whatever config files that standardized types of options, their default, and something about their types (is it a toggleable boolean, a bounded continuous value, an integer, etc etc) could be nice. It might be possible to provide enough info automatically generate the GUI (draw the first as a button, the second as a slider, and the third as a number box), and that sort of info would be helpful to have if you were writing the file by hand anyway.

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#594

Post by tluyben2 » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #590

tluyben2 wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the things like standby and hibernation and touchscreen are major issues especially in new laptops. But I never use these features myself. Guess I got used to it. Which devices (specifically) do you have? I might have one or both or know someone who has.

Acer Spin 5. Out of the box linux experience is actually quite good. Performance loss I can handle, but standby-resume reliably introduced touch screen bugs and other annoyances. Or did not wake up at all. I actually just recently gave up with linux on it and installed windows. (which was surprisingly a big huzzle, I had to resort to third party software to get the right windows drivers. But now it runs way better -…

I get that; a computer is a tool; it might be a love but mostly it’s a tool and it just has to work. That is really why I installed Linux in the first place back in the day but maybe things did reverse. I have a script which just makes any apt machine into mine; it is something I cannot do on Mac and win anyway and that is enough reason; I can get a laptop and run that script giving me a full working station in about 10 minutes. That is already nice. But then I don’t have much wishes; if it’s very heavy, I will offload to servers and I don’t need a lot of graphical stuff outside a modern browser.

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#595

Post by bee_rider » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 5:15 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #549

bee_rider wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep has become less of an issue recently, at least in my experience. Modern laptop CPUs idle in such a low power state. I just set up my built-in display to disable when the lid is closed. Seems sufficient.

If you leave it anywhere in a bag not plugged in, then you have to be constantly thinking 'I only have 30 hours left till the battery dies and I lose everything I had open'. Not a great feeling.

I'm not 30 hours away from electricity very often, to the point where it wouldn't be a big deal to just save and shutdown, since it is a rare occasion. But I live a very predictable lifestyle, I guess if you are exploring London you probably end up in unexpected situations often.

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#596

Post by cdata » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

nsilvestri wrote: post #309

cdata wrote: post #207

Just an anecdote: got my Framework laptop the other week. Installed Pop!_OS. That was the only step. Everything works. Suspend/resume. WiFi. Audio. Webcam. Funky dongle ports. This is something I had already experienced with my older System76 laptop. This is the first time for me experiencing it with another brand.

How does your suspend battery life work out for you? I'm running Ubuntu with Framework and even though I've done tweaked some settings I still end up with a dead battery after I reopen my laptop a day later.

I haven't put it through a rigorous test, but I can confirm that if I leave the laptop suspended without power, it will eventually lose its charge and shut off in what seems like a day. I only did this once by accident over a weekend; I've been using it every day and have the chance to charge it when I need to.

The only laptops I have ever owned that didn't have this problem after some fashion are Apple laptops, so I guess my expectations were fairly low on this topic.

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#597

Post by bee_rider » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 6:04 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #537

bee_rider wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is more niche to care about than you might imagine. First off, a huge % of the population barely knows what an HDMI cable is and just doesn't plug their laptop into anything. Second, office workers might have a nice docking station setup, but in that case you are probably basically turning the laptop into a desktop (with a keyboard, mouse, and nice monitor) -- why bother with the laptop screen at all? Fi…

Because it is yet another screen to put stuff on.

Sure but it is a small one, and designing a way to place it ergonomically is going to require some extra effort.

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#598

Post by ldng » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 6:06 PM UTC

mid-kid wrote: post #121

Loic wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the past 20 years I have been only using Thinkpad from the T and the X series. The only one with an issue was I think the X220 with the SD card reader not being stable. All the other ones are working perfectly well. My current one is a T480. But I always take some time to look if somebody succeed in installing Linux on the laptop I want to buy before. If it means I need to wait an extra 6 months, then I wait a bi…

I kind of expected the A485 to have similar issues to the T480, since it's the same laptop except for the cpu and graphics. I did some preliminary searching and the listing of the laptop as "ubuntu certified" gave me too much confidence, I guess. I forgot to mention in the parent post that the SD card reader can't detect insertion/removal at times, yeah, so I have a script to reload the rtsx_pci_sdmmc kernel module t…

The A485 has really terrible support ! To the point I'm wondering if Lenovo didn't do it on purpose ... Very disappointed with mine to this day. Time definitely did not improve support.

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#599

Post by stoplying1 » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 6:27 PM UTC

btdmaster wrote: post #408

stoplying1 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, that didn't help. Fwiw, I have a Ryzen not an Intel, not sure if that module name is a misnomer though.

That was only an example, you want to find the article for your specific laptop (you haven't mentioned the model, so I can't help!) and try the instructions there. If that article does not exist, or is not useful, you could always try this generic PulseAudio virtual device solution: https://askubuntu.com/questions/78174/play-sound-through-two... (Side note: intel refers to the sound card, not the CPU.)

Not to be dismissive, but I have. I've tried instructions from my laptops "parent" and "brother" units and the instructions don't work. I've spent an hour or two on this at different times and I know everyone says this, but I usually always figure this type of thing out when I get stuck on it. I've tried Arch wiki, Ive been through some LKML threads, some long RH bug, etc. I can actually see in my NixOS config other attempts I've made previously. I've even tried custom snd.conf, doing things in Windows, etc. A bit crushing at this point, I just grabbed a spare set of BT earbuds that are probably just as fine a solution. (Until I accidentally boot to windows and realize how decent it can sound)

Re: Linux on the laptop works so damn well that it’s boring

#600

Post by mycall » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 6:34 PM UTC

vladvasiliu wrote: post #141

mid-kid wrote: post #70

Yeah, no. Maybe with old laptops, but newer laptops still have their fair share of issues. When I bought my thinkpad A485 kernels wouldn't boot without additional parameters, the graphics would freeze at times and cause a hardlock, sleep and hibernation have been fixed and broken again intermittently over several kernel versions, the wifi card's AP mode started causing segfaults in kernel 5.2 due to the driver's rewr…

This seems to me as a more generic problem with newer hardware, not specific to Linux. Likely devices rushed out the door to meet some idiotic deadline, badly specced and with incompletely implemented drivers. At the end of 2021 I got an EliteBook 845 g8 (Zen 3) that worked completely fine out of the box on Linux (Arch with up-to-date kernel). Every last bit of kit worked perfectly. Bluetooth, IR webcam, fingerprint…

I was looking at the new EliteBook g9 that has a i7-1280p and 64GB RAM DDR5 2TB, only $2500 (ouch). I would be surprised if Linux runs great OOTB. It is best to wait a gen before trying.