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Aging programmer

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Re: Aging programmer

#231

Post by yu3zhou4 »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #210
derangedHorse wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the general sentiment is that the interview process for software engineers suck but almost no one wants to take a chance trying to develop a new way to interview. It’s somewhat understandable though since devising a new process can’t be to people focused less you inherit too much bias from the interviewer, nor can they be boiled down to a objective metric or else people may fall into inflexible dogmatic practices…

> almost no one wants to take a chance trying to develop a new way to interview. I'm guessing your in the under 40 camp, but interviews did used to be better . In the early days of the startup explosion interviews where much better. The biggest signal at the time was having an active github profile or otherwise existing portfolio of code. The strongest signal back then was serious contribution to any open source proj…

> The strongest signal back then was serious contribution to any open source projects (strangely today that almost seems to count against you)

Would you mind sharing why contribution to open source might have a negative impact for an interview?

Re: Aging programmer

#232

Post by scarface74 »

Instantix wrote: post #230
scarface74 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why reinvent the wheel? I’ve seen “architects” who didn’t think they needed Entity Framework and went about solving the same problems (mostly around change tracking) very badly. Give me a widely supported framework any day over a badly written unsupported in house solution.

Sometime frameworks are a real help, sometime using it is just making thing bloated and it's hard-linking the future to someone who have the knowledge of the framework.

I would much rather “hard link” the future to a publicly available documented framework than one that a single person who thought their problem was a special snowflake wrote.

Re: Aging programmer

#233

Post by rafaelbeirigo »

"I have no idea about how effective pair programming is. My desire to discover it is zero."

Sculptors, painters, writers are with you in this one...

It's very challenging to share creative space/material

Re: Aging programmer

#234

Post by tayistay »

> Back in college, they told me that I would start my career writing code, but eventually, I would move to a position where I would ask others to code my designs.

Without continued exponential expansion of the industry, seems numerically impossible that everyone would eventually become a manager or architect.

Re: Aging programmer

#235

Post by shakezula »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #224
dominotw wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Leetcoding is a worthy investment for career. Why not . I understand that it feels like its waste of time with no practical use but the upsides are that they make job hopping trival because you know what to expect and feel confident. I think its a tiny investment for big returns. unparalleled to any other activity you could invest your time in.

> unparalleled to any other activity you could invest your time in. Huh. Never heard that before. I invest my time in writing " shippable " code. Even my "farting around" projects are done in a manner as if they were to be released by a Fortune 50 company. That means that Every. Single. Line. Of. Code. that I write is "ship" code. There are a number of projects that I've stopped working on (I archive them, but leave…

I have to agree with parent comment. Leet code interviews, while sometimes obnoxious, are still good exercises. I have learned a lot of nuanced takes from a leet code interview with an interesting question.

Re: Aging programmer

#236

Post by chucksmash »

JackMorgan wrote: post #165
twblalock wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, programmers are paid better than most people and early retirement is often possible. A lot of programmers don’t need to work into their 60s. In my own case, when I have enough money to retire it’s going to be hard to convince me to keep working.

I know quite a few engineers who simply no longer need to work ever again, and are working just for "funemployment".

Funemployment is when you are not working though

Re: Aging programmer

#237

Post by vsareto »

drstewart wrote: post #86
vsareto wrote: post #11

>I never understood why some people despise the term full-stack. More for the role: full-stack has you doing multiple roles, but is not compensated as such. You're even removing the communication overhead if the role had been split in two. It seems to me as a business move to compress roles and pay you less for double the capability in exchange for varied work. I don't think people should just accept lower comp just…

So do you feel the same way about backend developers who use databases? Surely that's two roles: server developer and database developer? Of course, they can't test their own code manually. That's two roles: developer and QA! So a backend developer is at least 3 roles of work. Are you making 3x the salary you should be?

TBH you could add Architect and DevOps if they're doing architecture/writing IaC as well. These all can be individual roles. The formula doesn't necessarily have to be salary times roles, but it should be higher than specific roles like front-end, back-end, DBA, QA, architect which can all ask for high salaries on their own. In my experience, full stack jobs often have salaries on par with the specific roles which is my beef.

The biggest personal reason generalist roles should be priced higher is the time you spent to learn multiple things well enough to get a job doing them. If you accept a role as full stack that pays the same as a backend only role, you're essentially devaluing your own time. The other perks are reducing head count and giving the business that extra flexibility and convenience. If your salary doesn't reflect that, you're giving it away for free and we know how much businesses make us pay as consumers for convenience.

It might seems strange to consider a lot of factors, but you have to remember that generalists can bring quite a lot to the table.

Re: Aging programmer

#238

Post by orzig »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #154
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ageism in tech Several reasons for ageism sometimes missed. This from someone whose been discriminated against, who has hired, who now owns a company & who was also a recruiter. __I don't agree with this__ just laying the reasons out for clarity sake: - Hiring managers don't consider themselves ageist, but opt for younger employees whom they think make a better cultural fit. You can blame the 'work is my social lif…

> Hiring managers don't consider themselves ageist, but > Hiring managers don't want to be ageist, but I classify this into the "I'm not a racist, but..." bucket. > Hiring managers (usually fixated on 'new tech') who fear diminished learning, adoption or performance capacity in older employees This is the textbook definition of what ageism is. Conclusion? They are ageists, plain as that. They may not consider themsel…

I think there’s value in trying to understand the thought process, instead of just throwing a label on it and walking away

Re: Aging programmer

#239

Post by iepathos »

w4ffl35 wrote: post #171
StevePerkins wrote: post #97

I'm approaching 50. Just a scant decade away from being old enough to tap my retirement accounts and have the OPTION to retire. These next couple of years look like they might not be fun, but overall it looks like I'm actually going to make it. For most of my career, I've been told (and I believed) that I would probably get forced out of a hands-on individual contributor role as I aged. During the late-2000's, I even…

the thing that gets frustrating as i age are interviews and code challenges. i'd really prefer a certification that proves i can do xyz which i take once (per year? in my life?). then just decide if you like me based on personality and communication. i have over 200 repositories etc. its redundant, and random code challenges that differ from employer to employer prove next to nothing. 20 years ago it was the norm for…

I've interviewed people with computer science phd's from schools with good reputations that couldn't program worth a damn when it came to some simple algorithm and practical coding questions in person so, I don't have a lot of faith in certs/degrees for this.

Re: Aging programmer

#240

Post by mathgladiator »

> My desire to manage people is at all-time lows.

Checks out. Last year, I retired from big tech at 40 because it just wasn't worth the headache. Now, I'm wandering, and it's fantastic. This is now the tenth month of just wandering, and I'm finding my footing with my SaaS which currently is in the red.

My only goal right now is to find partners which don't require me to compromise what I like doing (too much).

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