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Aging programmer

world.hey.com

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Re: Aging programmer

#181

Post by flyinglizard »

liuliu wrote: post #71
rickreynoldssf wrote: post #65

51 grey beard here. Let me complain about the younguns. So much of what's out there today is, or is based on "solutions" created to solve problems that don't really exist. Rather than try to understand something so many engineers created "frameworks" to implement what was already there. Like 90% of current web stacks are just that. But new engineers are trained on that stuff and think it's the only way. That frustrat…

I sort of know what you are saying. Being dealing with so-called "server-side rendering" v.s. "static generated" recently, and these feel old / boring. It has been 15 years and mostly the same thing reinvented. However, it is not a negatively thing. We may be able to setup IIS / Apache with Squid two decades ago to do similar things. The bar to do it now is much lower, and the tooling to help achieve that is much bet…

My company has a tech stack consisting of all the latest and greatest devops/tooling/cloud services, and an old timer like me wonders if that could have been just implemented as one C++ binary running somewhere.

Re: Aging programmer

#182

Post by thepra »

I started my career as a full stack and I've been doing it so far well.

I like to design and think thoroughly about business logic and data layout and also how you host and architect the final running services/websites.

It seems that I just can't leave the software secret sauce being secret.

Re: Aging programmer

#183

Post by derangedHorse »

w4ffl35 wrote: post #171
StevePerkins wrote: post #97

I'm approaching 50. Just a scant decade away from being old enough to tap my retirement accounts and have the OPTION to retire. These next couple of years look like they might not be fun, but overall it looks like I'm actually going to make it. For most of my career, I've been told (and I believed) that I would probably get forced out of a hands-on individual contributor role as I aged. During the late-2000's, I even…

the thing that gets frustrating as i age are interviews and code challenges. i'd really prefer a certification that proves i can do xyz which i take once (per year? in my life?). then just decide if you like me based on personality and communication. i have over 200 repositories etc. its redundant, and random code challenges that differ from employer to employer prove next to nothing. 20 years ago it was the norm for…

No the general sentiment is that the interview process for software engineers suck but almost no one wants to take a chance trying to develop a new way to interview. It’s somewhat understandable though since devising a new process can’t be to people focused less you inherit too much bias from the interviewer, nor can they be boiled down to a objective metric or else people may fall into inflexible dogmatic practices that use metrics that don’t directly or accurately measure a candidates ability to perform the job applied for

Re: Aging programmer

#184

Post by AmpsterMan »

StevePerkins wrote: post #97

I'm approaching 50. Just a scant decade away from being old enough to tap my retirement accounts and have the OPTION to retire. These next couple of years look like they might not be fun, but overall it looks like I'm actually going to make it. For most of my career, I've been told (and I believed) that I would probably get forced out of a hands-on individual contributor role as I aged. During the late-2000's, I even…

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

The number of "jobs" added doesn't quite double, but if we think of it as "for every 4 that retire, five take their place" it would definitely feel like what you're saying.

Re: Aging programmer

#185

Post by scarface74 »

wonderwonder wrote: post #88
sys_64738 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of programmers who are 35+ can struggle to find further opportunities as the more senior you are the less available those opportunities are and the more expensive you are. Lots of companies only want young people who are naive and have limited distractions outside of work. So, really, programming as a field is front loaded and the longer you stay in the business over 35 then the luckier you have been. But make…

I very much think this is limited to the startup / work fast and break things style of companies. Always work available for sr. people at large established companies, especially fortune 500. Specifically companies where tech is not the core business product, many of them are attempting to modernize their systems. They pay pretty well too; not Google / Amazon level but on a pure salary basis many probably pay comparab…

It was even easier for me to find work at smaller companies the older I got. There were always companies that really needed someone who could help them mature their processes, who they could put out in front of customers, who knew how to work with sales, who they could send off-site and talk to their customers tech departments (B2B) etc.

It got to the point where my “interviews” were more just sitting down with directors/CTOs and talking like adults about how I would help them solve their real world business problems. I haven’t done a coding interview in over a decade even though I have been hands on all that time - across five jobs

Re: Aging programmer

#186

Post by scarface74 »

tartoran wrote: post #48
therealdokks wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm as a 53 year old programmer I've had the exact opposite experience. Because of the large diversity of my skills I have more offers for work than ever before.

You’re the odd one out, perhaps due to your own abilities and other special qualities. For the average programmer ageism applies though. And the largest majority of devs is in the average region

So the question becomes “why would a 50 year old be an average programmer?”

I am very much the “average programmer”, but I learned a long time ago how to focus on “adding business value”, talking to customers (internal and external), writing, presenting, explaining concepts to non-technical people and even once a decade ago talking to investors and potential acquirers when a startup I was working for when they wanted to talk to the “technical folks”

Re: Aging programmer

#187

Post by wpietri »

gedy wrote: post #50
w4ffl35 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting a software engineers career to less than 20 years is a pretty fucking idiotic thing to do.

A lot of software companies don't care about having good programmers, they want people to do their bidding and be as cheap as possible. Younger people are nicer to look at too.

Such an important point. At so many places, effectively producing good software is low down on the priority list. In which case, a lot of the "rational actor" analysis around hiring totally misses the point.

Re: Aging programmer

#188

Post by soulofmischief »

ransom1538 wrote: post #168
StevePerkins wrote: post #97

I'm approaching 50. Just a scant decade away from being old enough to tap my retirement accounts and have the OPTION to retire. These next couple of years look like they might not be fun, but overall it looks like I'm actually going to make it. For most of my career, I've been told (and I believed) that I would probably get forced out of a hands-on individual contributor role as I aged. During the late-2000's, I even…

"For most of my career, I've been told (and I believed) that I would probably get forced out of a hands-on individual contributor role as I aged." Programmers are in a bubble. Head over to the local grocery store. The person bagging your groceries is 63. There is no retirement plan for him - as well as most Americans. These "old" people will end up working until 70, on their feet . If I can find someone to pay me to…

A bubble as in we are not cognizant enough to recognize the benefits of investing in our skills and education so that we aren't bagging groceries at 63, or a bubble as in we should not expect our current ratio of compensation vs skill to hold out forever?

Re: Aging programmer

#189

Post by w4ffl35 »

derangedHorse wrote: post #183
w4ffl35 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the thing that gets frustrating as i age are interviews and code challenges. i'd really prefer a certification that proves i can do xyz which i take once (per year? in my life?). then just decide if you like me based on personality and communication. i have over 200 repositories etc. its redundant, and random code challenges that differ from employer to employer prove next to nothing. 20 years ago it was the norm for…

No the general sentiment is that the interview process for software engineers suck but almost no one wants to take a chance trying to develop a new way to interview. It’s somewhat understandable though since devising a new process can’t be to people focused less you inherit too much bias from the interviewer, nor can they be boiled down to a objective metric or else people may fall into inflexible dogmatic practices…

i think it should be like this: can code / do whatever is being hired for + understads what we're building? hire. doesn't do a good job? fire.

its actually based on personality + a convoluted code challenge that has no bearing on the actual job.

Re: Aging programmer

#190

Post by einpoklum »

beej71 wrote: post #94

I found I lost interest in vapid work. Programming is still fun, but it's a big challenge to find a job that is fulfilling. When I was younger, I'd work on whatever. Then everything started sounding like yet another get rich quick company, and is that what I was giving up my life for? Just to move little green pieces of paper around? The most appealing thing I'd seen recently was a company that wrote software to help…

Another option - if you can manage arranging it - is working part-time (whether half-time or four-days-a-week rather than five), and spending the rest of the time working on the software which you think _really_ needs to get written. With some luck and effort, these two branches of your work can even relate (but then you need to be careful about the IP clauses in your contract).
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