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The new wave of JavaScript web frameworks

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Re: The new wave of JavaScript web frameworks

#11

Post by metadat »

dtagames wrote: post #9

Another article about web dev that fails to mention bare metal web components and Lit. How does this keep happening? While it's true that bare metal web components don't handle routing or state for you, in many apps those are problems that you can solve yourself -- and in a way that makes sense to you, rather than to the framework developer. In my experience with Lit and bare metal (browser standards-based) web compo…

Ignorance is the norm until the information spread reaches critical mass.

You could help spread ideas you consider worthwhile (presumably the ones you mention) by providing concrete links to the things you are talking about, especially information on how to properly take advantage of them. I've never heard of Lit and/or bare metal, and don't know where to begin.

I also consider myself proficient in React and Angular.

Re: The new wave of JavaScript web frameworks

#12

Post by dtagames »

metadat wrote: post #11
dtagames wrote: post #9

Another article about web dev that fails to mention bare metal web components and Lit. How does this keep happening? While it's true that bare metal web components don't handle routing or state for you, in many apps those are problems that you can solve yourself -- and in a way that makes sense to you, rather than to the framework developer. In my experience with Lit and bare metal (browser standards-based) web compo…

Ignorance is the norm until the information spread reaches critical mass. You could help spread ideas you consider worthwhile (presumably the ones you mention) by providing concrete links to the things you are talking about, especially information on how to properly take advantage of them. I've never heard of Lit and/or bare metal, and don't know where to begin. I also consider myself proficient in React and Angular.

Indeed. I wrote a whole series on it. I don't post this every time I comment, though. :-)

https://link.medium.com/RpKPYCuwAtb

Re: The new wave of JavaScript web frameworks

#13

Post by ehnto »

> This makes it easier to move a lot things currently done in the browser back to servers. While somewhat mitigating the network latency tradeoff that’s made by doing that.

I think the network latency of reaching out to a server instead of a CDN edge node was greatly overstated, especially when we then immediately fire off other requests for assets and hydration. This quote was in the context of comparing MPA to SPA architectures and tradeoffs.

Fantastic article, very impressive coverage and matches my experience quite well.

Re: The new wave of JavaScript web frameworks

#14

Post by eurasiantiger »

tln wrote: post #3
eurasiantiger wrote: post #2

The article doesn’t seem to give enough weight to GraphQL: it’s only mentioned in passing even though it solves the waterfall request problem mentioned much later in another context.

GraphQL isn't a web framework though. ---- I wonder if GraphQL is destined for the same type of evolution; React was a revelation compared to what came before, hugely popular, with a heavy client library and runtime costs. I see some of those in GraphQL The new wave of svelte and quik etc are faster and lighter, by pre-compiling or rethinking how and when the work is performed

You’re right, but for example Apollo is a widely used GraphQL framework for both server and client—yet it was not mentioned.

Re: The new wave of JavaScript web frameworks

#15

Post by andy800 »

It's been mentioned a bit on HN but HTMX is brilliant and along with AlpineJS, you have immense power despite very little JS, or even none at all. With almost everything happening on the backend, you can focus almost all development energy on using the language of your choice. As a Kotlin fanboy I absolutely love this paradigm and am writing entire sites in my favorite language (huge shout-out to jte.gg, a native templating engine). Just in the past few weeks I've built numerous functions/features/pages in a day that would have taken weeks or more to do with Vue or React.

Re: The new wave of JavaScript web frameworks

#16

Post by rk06 »

dtagames wrote: post #10
matt7340 wrote: post #5

Nice overview, especially for those of us working long term projects and locked into whatever framework the originals devs chose. I wish I had time to try all these things out, but it’s tough to keep up. Interesting that angular, and especially angular 2, only gets a passing mention.

Google itself has moved on from Angular. They invented Lit, the anti-framework, which has far less scaffolding and cruft and is based on browser standards.

Google is a very big company. They have maintained polymer(now reincarnated as lit), angular and angular dart. No reason to believe that there will be a change in status quo

Re: The new wave of JavaScript web frameworks

#19

Post by klysm »

seydor wrote: post #17

Has anyone thought of creating an engine that creates web frameworks?

You joke, but a lot of libraries frequently have templates of them integrating with other JavaScript things. The Cartesian product of sensible choices is so large, you could effectively think of each one as a web framework.

Re: The new wave of JavaScript web frameworks

#20

Post by mcluck »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #2

The article doesn’t seem to give enough weight to GraphQL: it’s only mentioned in passing even though it solves the waterfall request problem mentioned much later in another context.

Hot take: a lot of usage of GraphQL is terrible and most apps don't need it.

For example, I worked at a place where it was a requirement that everything runs through GraphQL. Sure, fine, except then you see that they were making tailor-made resolvers for particular use cases. You wouldn't see multiple different apps or sections of the app pulling from the same endpoint but with trimmed down queries. It was essentially BFF but with a GraphQL middleware because "it's what big companies do." I've had a number of friends say they've seen the same thing. I'm sure when you're working with applications like Facebook and you're using it intelligently, it's great. My experience is that many people don't understand that.

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