Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick • Hacker News Board

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#21

Post by JangoSteve » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 4:54 PM UTC

I have found that most people don't even realize they're being dicks when submitting bug reports or feature suggestions for OSS. I recent wrote an article about this phenomenon and what to do about it. [1]

For example, it can be demeaning to OSS developers who have spent much of their time (often unpaid) to build this software for you to use, when you open your bug report with the attitude that it must be broken simply because it doesn't do what you want it to do.

I prefer to start every conversation (bug report, etc), not with the purpose of fixing something that's broken, but to expand the both project's applicability and the community's understanding of the project. For example, consider

    This software is broken on IE.

vs

    Can we make this software work in IE?

You're not starting a conversation because the software is broken in IE, you're starting it because it's an opportunity to make it applicable to the IE use-case.

This is also why I encourage everyone who's having trouble with any of my projects to open an issue ticket. I often get emails or tweets from people asking for help with some problem, and the first thing I tell them is, open a ticket. Their aversion to opening a ticket is because they're not sure if it's an issue with the software, or if they're just doing it wrong. But I say it's ticket-worthy either way, because a ticket isn't made to fix broken software, it's made to increase the project's applicability and the community's understanding of the software. If you're having the problem, chances are someone else is or will have that same problem, and now they can find the solution.

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#22

Post by illumen » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 5:03 PM UTC

No, people should not be mean or rude to developers - or anyone really.

However, Mozilla is getting paid for the software. Just because it is open source, does not mean that people don't get paid.

Mozilla takes money for their software in the form of donations. So some users are actually paying directly to Mozilla.

Also, Mozilla makes most of its money by selling private information to Google (searches etc). Users are paying through giving up some of their privacy, by doing searches through Firefox, and google.

Also, the Mozilla foundation is a non profit organisation which means all the US tax payers give it money indirectly through government support. If it was a company, then it would not get certain privileged treatment.

Finally users contribute to OSS through at least testing products - if not in documentation and many other ways.

Anyway, my point is that you can't really use the excuse that it's free to the users, so they can't expect anything - because it certainly isn't entirely free.

People should try and not be rude - on either the developers side or the users side. I've seen a bunch of rants from Mozilla people about this, so I think their community needs work. They should consider watching how their developers communicate with people as well. Calling people 'dicks' and such is pretty harsh. They should also consider making Bugzilla nicer. Things like WONTFIX, and other communications with bug reporters can really make people angry, and can make Mozilla come across as being rude too.

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#23

Post by statictype » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 5:08 PM UTC

illumen wrote: post #22

No, people should not be mean or rude to developers - or anyone really. However, Mozilla is getting paid for the software. Just because it is open source, does not mean that people don't get paid. Mozilla takes money for their software in the form of donations. So some users are actually paying directly to Mozilla. Also, Mozilla makes most of its money by selling private information to Google (searches etc). Users ar…

What private information about you does Mozilla sell to Google? As far as I know, Google only pays Mozilla to provide the default home page and search engine.

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#24

Post by khuey » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 5:39 PM UTC

illumen wrote: post #22

No, people should not be mean or rude to developers - or anyone really. However, Mozilla is getting paid for the software. Just because it is open source, does not mean that people don't get paid. Mozilla takes money for their software in the form of donations. So some users are actually paying directly to Mozilla. Also, Mozilla makes most of its money by selling private information to Google (searches etc). Users ar…

I'm not even sure how to respond to the "selling private information to Google" bit. If you think choosing a default search engine equates to selling private information I guess that's cool. I don't agree, and I don't think many (or any) people who work on Mozilla do, and we're generally a pretty privacy concerned group.

The Mozilla Corporation pays taxes on its profits (including its business deals with Google) like any other US company. There's no special "privileged treatment" on the business deals.

(Disclosure: I work for the Mozilla Corporation)

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#25

Post by ComputerGuru » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 5:55 PM UTC

robflynn wrote: post #7

I spent a good many years managing and developing a popular open source project. While most of our users were/are good individuals, there were certainly some nasty ones in the bunch. I remember being cursed at many a time simply for politely refusing to implement whatever random feature a user requested. If a bug were to come up in the software, there were times where threats and/or demands were made that I fix the b…

Off topic: I had a intermittent crashing bug in libpurple in the XMPP file transfer code. I filed a bug and was more than willing to help patch it myself, but gosh, the development environment to debug Pidgin on Windows or Mac is really something! I just couldn't get it set up to debug properly and the bug is still open 2 or 3 years later :(

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#26

Post by jimevan » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 6:14 PM UTC

illumen wrote: post #22

No, people should not be mean or rude to developers - or anyone really. However, Mozilla is getting paid for the software. Just because it is open source, does not mean that people don't get paid. Mozilla takes money for their software in the form of donations. So some users are actually paying directly to Mozilla. Also, Mozilla makes most of its money by selling private information to Google (searches etc). Users ar…

But how do you square your views with OSS projects that aren't Mozilla? How about those that truly are volunteer OSS projects that the developers don't get paid for? I contribute to a large, popular OSS project, and much of the blog post rings true for me.

Full disclosure: I am not an employee of Mozilla Corporation.

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#27

Post by thedjpetersen » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 6:15 PM UTC

I agree with http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3295720 . It would be nice to be in a world where people treated each other well. I have seen the inverse as well though, some person politely pointing out a deficiency in an open source project and getting derided by a maintainer. Reminds me of this HN post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2267885 .

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#28

Post by thedjpetersen » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 6:15 PM UTC

I agree with http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3295720 . It would be nice to be in a world where people treated each other well. I have seen the inverse as well though, some person politely pointing out a deficiency in an open source project and getting derided by a maintainer. Reminds me of this HN post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2267885 .

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#29

Post by bryanlarsen » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 6:15 PM UTC

robflynn wrote: post #13

nodata wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does this idea of "owing" somebody something come into it? If a user is unreasonably forcing a bug to be fixed, okay. But the "owing" part?

People are really strange when it comes to free stuff. A friend of mine decided one day to buy a bunch of donuts and hand them out to some folks waiting in a long line out in the cold. Most people were very thankful or even surprised that someone would do such a thing. A small subset of people complained that he only bought one kind of donut, or complained that he didn't also purchase coffee for them.

Actually, if I remember correctly, some studies have shown that people complain more about free stuff than they do about stuff they paid for. The theory is that act of paying for something makes you invested in it, so you're more likely to identify/sympathize with it.

Re: Hug an OSS Developer or just don't be a dick

#30

Post by starwed » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 6:21 PM UTC

robflynn wrote: post #9

starwed wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idly curious: is there a reason you don't just mention the name of the project? (I'm assuming Pidgin.)

I mentioned it initially but went back and removed it. I couldn't decide if the stating the project specifically was relevant or not. I often over analyze what I'm posting here for some reason. It was Pidgin, but back when it was called gaim. The pidgin transition occurred while I was leaving. I stuck around long enough to participate in deciding on the new name / logo / branding and then handed everything over to Se…

I think adding details like that makes your point more strongly -- too many folk on the internet shoot their mouth off with vague claims, which when poked at completely fall apart. But in this case it only took clicking on your user profile to see that yes, the project you were referring to really was a pretty popular one. :)