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Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

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Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#51

Post by eesmith »

cirrus3 wrote: post #39

These types of guys are dumb. No sympathy. Just because it was declared legal doesn't mean it is a good law. We have lots of laws like that, but most of them won't get you killed swiftly.

I ... think it's the other way around?

It reads like the law wasn't allowing something which was previously illegal, but was setting limits on an action which used to be legal.

That is, cyclists used to be able to be in anywhere in the lanes of traffic going the appropriate direction. Now they have to have a reason for not being on the right.

And wanting to avoid running into car doors opened suddenly is still a valid reason - it was never declared illegal.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#53

Post by Gibbon1 »

enneff wrote: post #25
version_five wrote: post #11

Cyclists and cars should not be on the same roads. It's silly to pretend that drawing some chevrons on the road or making a law that you need to do whatever around cyclists will make a difference. People who want cycling options should be advocating for separate paths dedicated to cycling, with proper signals when they need to cross car lanes so there is no ambiguity

It’s true, cyclists should not be on roads with cars. But they can share the same streets . (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad ) Streets that are cyclist-friendly are also pedestrian-friendly.

As a pedestrian I've had more bad encounters with bicycles in San Francisco than cars.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#54

Post by enneff »

kazinator wrote: post #49
enneff wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a cyclist has to yield to every passing car, then in any busy area (where most people travel) the cyclist effectively always has to be off to the side, which is not safe. If the cyclist is not occupying an actual lane to themselves then they are constantly being passed too close by fast moving vehicles, and in danger of running into the suddenly-opening doors of parked cars or surprise pedestrians. Seriously, if y…

If you can't move at or above the posted speed limit, let others pass. It's as simple as that. You're not entitled to impede others. All users of the road are entitled to move at the speed limit, when there there is no problem ahead such as an accident, congestion, obstruction or construction. If you're not yourself impeded by such a predicament, and have an open road in front of you, you have no right to arbitrarily…

Your reductionist view gives no room for safe cycling in most cities. It requires nothing of the drivers and accomodations from everyone else. Why is that? Cars haven’t even been common for 100 years. Before they came along, we didn’t even need speed limits, and vehicles of different kinds could occupy the streets together. Now it’s all just cars. It doesn’t have to be that way, and in some parts of the world it isn’t.

You say I’m a lunatic, but my experience and the scientific community research shows that drivers often don’t view cyclists as humans, nor do they accurately assess the risk of driving too close to (or even ramming or side swiping) cyclists. (You can find several papers on this, or just ask any cyclist.)

By the way, even if it’s only 1 in 100 drivers who hold this attitude, a cyclist encounters hundreds of drivers during a typical trip. Those are not good odds.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#55

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

eesmith wrote: post #50
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is BS. Because that is my default speed on a 3-speed from about 1985 on flat grounds. Damn! So absurd, I must be from the future, or something.

My fast speed now is about 22 kph. I'm definitely not as fast as I was when I was a teenager in 1985. I'm even slower when carrying a kid on the back. Looks like Google Maps uses 20 kph for their average bike speed. (I measured a rails-to-trails route; 12.3 miles in 1 hour = 19.8 km.)

I didn't speak about teenager. Then it would be a different bike, 10- or 12-speed, and effortless 45 to 55 kph, with peak speeds for a few minutes to up to 70+ kph.

I know about that google thing, and similar sites. They are useless to me, because I'm always 3 to 4 times faster.

/me shrugs and thinks most of you are doing it wrong

and/or have terrible bicyles.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#56

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

nikau wrote: post #47
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #5

And so they paint the ground on the bike lane... rain + paint might as well be wet leaves or black ice.

no sure about the US, but where I live that green paint actually has bits of ground up glass and other stuff in it for friction, its sparkly when you shine light on it.

In that case, it would be superb as long as it doesn't dazzle riders.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#57

Post by Arnt »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #53
enneff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s true, cyclists should not be on roads with cars. But they can share the same streets . (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad ) Streets that are cyclist-friendly are also pedestrian-friendly.

As a pedestrian I've had more bad encounters with bicycles in San Francisco than cars.

I'll agree motorists are more careful than cyclists. Some cyclists will pass you at 20km/h and 5cm distance, motorists will keep much more distance than that.

But they have more speed and more weight too, and their greater distance doesn't compensate, so if you look at who kills you with their carelessness, the answer is plain: Motorists.

Cyclists are careless and give you a bruise or a fractured wrist.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#58

Post by eesmith »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #55
eesmith wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My fast speed now is about 22 kph. I'm definitely not as fast as I was when I was a teenager in 1985. I'm even slower when carrying a kid on the back. Looks like Google Maps uses 20 kph for their average bike speed. (I measured a rails-to-trails route; 12.3 miles in 1 hour = 19.8 km.)

I didn't speak about teenager. Then it would be a different bike, 10- or 12-speed, and effortless 45 to 55 kph, with peak speeds for a few minutes to up to 70+ kph. I know about that google thing, and similar sites. They are useless to me, because I'm always 3 to 4 times faster. /me shrugs and thinks most of you are doing it wrong and/or have terrible bicyles.

https://metrosaga.com/speed-professional-cyclists-ride/ says "The Bicycling Magazine reports that a professional Tour de France cyclist maintains the average speed depending on the terrain. On flat ground, the speed of the rider is between 25 and 28 mph."

That's 40 to 45 kph.

https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed.php says "Quite competent club rider, some regular training likely, medium-long distances (say 50-60 miles): 20-24 mph" (for "'mixed' terrain (ie rolling hills about 30% of the time, and pretty flat the rest of the time").

That's 32 to 39 kph.

Have you considered that Lance Armstrong might not be a good baseline for the median bike rider on the streets?

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#59

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

eesmith wrote: post #58
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't speak about teenager. Then it would be a different bike, 10- or 12-speed, and effortless 45 to 55 kph, with peak speeds for a few minutes to up to 70+ kph. I know about that google thing, and similar sites. They are useless to me, because I'm always 3 to 4 times faster. /me shrugs and thinks most of you are doing it wrong and/or have terrible bicyles.

https://metrosaga.com/speed-professional-cyclists-ride/ says "The Bicycling Magazine reports that a professional Tour de France cyclist maintains the average speed depending on the terrain. On flat ground, the speed of the rider is between 25 and 28 mph." That's 40 to 45 kph. https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed.php says "Quite competent club rider, some regular training likely, medium-long distances (s…

I'm weary of repeating myself, but do so nonetheless, since I can't know if you have read my former comments about this, or not.

So, long story short: growing up more or less disinterested in TV, because small B&W only at home, having more fun playing with my classmates in the forest and so on, I've been mostly unimpressed with TDF and similar. Even on larger color-tv when at home of some of classmates. You know why? Because I couldn't afford expensive bicycles, had no cars following me with spares, which in turn required maximum attention of my driving, and lastly I did not dope ;-> Oh, and running marathons instead if temporary lack of funds required waiting until I could repair my bicycle, because there was always something to fix/exchange, at least the way I've driven. Which came up to 300km a day, not every day, but often. Which in turn I didn't even notice, because I just didn't care about trip distance, instead being fixated on pushing the needle of the tachometer to the right as often and as long as possible :-) My neighbour noticed instead, and couldn't believe it. This went on for years, at least during school times, then went down a little because of real life constraints like work, time, etc.

So TDF and the likes just made me think: So what?

But still 100km is nothing special at all, and 50km are nothing. 160km I do notice, but hey, 3-speed from 1985, who cares? :-) Oh, and I drive during all weather, even on ice, but that is rare.

I am neither some hulk, nor some doped bicyling celebrity. Just fit, born in 1969, 181cm tall, and usually weighing somewhere between 81 to 85kg(83 atm).

Oh, and this 3-speed bicycle from about 1985 I'm speaking of I bought used for 150€ in 2005, which the shop keeper has shown me, after I've been unsatisfied with the 100eds of trash bikes on display, asking for something 'usable' and 'normal' instead. They just aren't built like that anymore!

(Frame of Randonneur, 27"x1 1/4 wheels, classic handlebar, Sachs Torpedo 3-speed hub with coaster/back pedal brake, feeble front wheel brake, mudcatchers, siderolling front dynamo, lights, porter/carrier with wirebasket fixed to it with cable ties, heavy saddle with steel springs, 12.5kg! Has been sold as "Deutschlandrad" by Kalkhoff at the time)

edit: Ring, Ring!

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#60

Post by eesmith »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #59
eesmith wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://metrosaga.com/speed-professional-cyclists-ride/ says "The Bicycling Magazine reports that a professional Tour de France cyclist maintains the average speed depending on the terrain. On flat ground, the speed of the rider is between 25 and 28 mph." That's 40 to 45 kph. https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed.php says "Quite competent club rider, some regular training likely, medium-long distances (s…

I'm weary of repeating myself, but do so nonetheless, since I can't know if you have read my former comments about this, or not. So, long story short: growing up more or less disinterested in TV, because small B&W only at home, having more fun playing with my classmates in the forest and so on, I've been mostly unimpressed with TDF and similar. Even on larger color-tv when at home of some of classmates. You know why?…

There's no need to repeat all this. You clearly know by now you are an outlier and your history adds nothing to the topic of mixed car and bike traffic.

Your humblebrag about your lived experience DOES NOT MEAN that choeger's "about 30km/h" is indeed anywhere near the right speed for the large majority of cyclists.

Even in places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen where it's flat, a lot of people do daily bike commutes, and they own no car.

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