Does teams still use emails on the backend for every message?
I hope not, though that may explain why they keep any message content as oddly formatted HTML and CSS.
Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
791–800 of 814 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
#792It's interesting how the back-end part is "funny" as well. If you a Teams to Teams call, your internal call flow ends up being exposed to the calling party [1] - and that's not what you expect out of an office PBX. This happens only if both parties are on a Teams client, though. [1] https://twitter.com/lenz/status/1571921532783587329
I have a write-up about how their API is funny.
https://blog.opercom.co.uk/posts/odd-microsoft-teams-api/
Re: Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
#793Earlier quoted context omitted.
and... I've never yet been in a team/project where being able to track/view/find issue/code pairings from years ago was ever remotely useful or helpful. If it was something in the last few months, sometimes people could dig in and try to understand a bit more by asking relevant people. Finding a 'bug' introduced by someone from 4 years ago who doesn't work there any more, then finding the particular ticket that spawn…
As an architect working on maintenance & refactoring, I find regular value in being able to understand the context (issue tracker ticket) in which a commit was made. Also more than mildly useful for devs doing porting work. Commit comments are rarely substantive enough, and "asking relevant people" is nice but not an actual substitute for keeping meaningful records.
I can recall multiple times I've determined why the current logic in the code should be not simplified as part of refactoring or fixing a bug after tracking down the original ticket associated with a commit. That original ticket is quite often a bug report, and sure enough, there was actually a good explanation for why the code is written the way it is, which is almost never going to be captured in commit or inline comments. While having an associated unit test is arguably a better way to capture the reason for such code changes, there are many reasons that's far less likely to exist than a JIRA ticket or equivalent.
Re: Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
#794Earlier quoted context omitted.
- Difficult to permanently delete entire chat history - Odd behavior when using smartphone and desktop app at the same time - sometimes calls accepted on desktop are still ringing on mobile. - Slow scroll back to history in chat. - Message-Image size (height) limit is small - Message length maximum is far too small
- When sharing a whole screen or a window, the teams application is forcibly minimised, regardless of whether teams in on that display or not.
Thank you all so much for this list! It's really going to come in handy with my custom Teams client, OperCom!
https://opercom.co.uk
Re: Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
#795Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or you just write sensible commit messages. Commits together with the messages should require as little out of band information as possible.
Bullshit. "Fix performance issue in listing page for customer support". Which customer? Is it the same issue as the one this other customer is reporting? How does the support person know the fix has been released? Unless you are expecting devs to copy paste a tonne of info into commit messages, it's way easier to just put the god damn ticket number in the commit title. If you really need to commit something with no t…
> If you really need to commit something with no ticket
I'm of the opinion the only time this should ever happen is if it's a critical fix to allow ci builds to succeed. E.g. unit tests with hard-coded assumptions about the external world (current date etc.) that stop being true. Or errors in pipeline scripts that occur due to changes in a build agent.
Re: Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
#796I still can't be logged into multiple Teams accounts from my Windows desktop - but I can from my iOS phone! A Microsoft product that works more cleanly on Apple iOS than it's own Windows.
When you're a consultant working with multiple companies, it's vital to be able to access multiple Teams accounts. Now I have to log out and log in to the various accounts, or use the browser version.
Then fun ensues when you schedule a Teams meeting in Outlook and you don't remember which Teams account you were logged into - I've connected to my own meeting, and I (along with everyone else in the meeting) is waiting for the host (me) to start the meeting - but I created it while logged into some other Teams account. Now I have to log out and log in and try to find the right account.
There also needs to be a way to have it sort the attendee list by the ORDER THEY JOINED. Most recent people at the bottom. Right now, it sorts by name and I have to keep scrolling the list of attendees, which keeps changing as people join, and try to figure out if the person(s) I am waiting for are there.
Re: Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
#797Earlier quoted context omitted.
no its not illegal, it just needs a lot of lawyers to workout the details. GDPR does not block a lot of things, it only requires you to work out the proper procedures and paperwork. And that is where Microsoft is good at, the compliance support.
How is is not illegal? The details are basically "PII EU resident data cannot be given to companies falling under legislation of governments not following due process regarding access of PII belonging to those residents" + "The US government regards itself above anything else and does not follow due process when accessing PII of EU citicens stored on premise of companies falling under its legislation" => "EU law does…
From what I understand of the Schrems court rulings I think you're right, but the whole EU establishment is continuing to try to ignore the ECJ on this because cutting out US vendors is more disruptive than they want to deal with. From a realpolitik perspective, it's only as illegal as the fines and binding court orders (after exhaustion of appeal rights) will make it.
I also wonder what the Schrems court rulings mean about US citizens working in the EU for EU companies, since the US might feel free to give purportedly binding surveillance orders to such citizens; or for EU residents who visit the US while working for EU companies and receive a binding surveillance order while in the US, possibly even with their work equipment and remote access to company PII.
If cutting out US vendors is disruptive, avoiding travel to and remote work from the US, and avoiding hiring (or being subject to hierarchical oversight from) US citizens in Europe would be even more so.
As a US citizen who is about to move to Europe myself, my preferred solution would of course be for the GDPR to be followed strictly and for the US to change its laws. But I'm really not expecting the US to pass that kind of legislation now.
Re: Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
#798Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bullshit. "Fix performance issue in listing page for customer support". Which customer? Is it the same issue as the one this other customer is reporting? How does the support person know the fix has been released? Unless you are expecting devs to copy paste a tonne of info into commit messages, it's way easier to just put the god damn ticket number in the commit title. If you really need to commit something with no t…
> Unless you are expecting devs to copy paste a tonne of info into commit messages, it's way easier to just put the god damn ticket number in the commit title. Yes, that's what devs should do. Or link to an issue from the git provider. Commit messages shouldn't contain customer information, they should contain fine grained information why the change fixes a particular issue and other technical minutae. What you doing…
I hate to break it to you, but code is usually written in support of a business objective and does not exist in a vacuum of technological purity... I say this as someone who's written everything from x86asm to python and everything in between for decades. If it really upsets your sensibilities to insert a reference to that business objective in a commit message then I don't know what to tell you...
Re: Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
#799Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Unless you are expecting devs to copy paste a tonne of info into commit messages, it's way easier to just put the god damn ticket number in the commit title. Yes, that's what devs should do. Or link to an issue from the git provider. Commit messages shouldn't contain customer information, they should contain fine grained information why the change fixes a particular issue and other technical minutae. What you doing…
I hate to break it to you, but code is usually written in support of a business objective and does not exist in a vacuum of technological purity... I say this as someone who's written everything from x86asm to python and everything in between for decades. If it really upsets your sensibilities to insert a reference to that business objective in a commit message then I don't know what to tell you...
A business objective is generally translatable to a use case, user story or requirement that can be understood without knowing "Mr. Smith from Company Thingamajig struggles to do x and is willing to pay sums of money to have it fixed". Your developers absolutely should NOT be knowing or dealing with business objectives.
As always there can be exceptions but if this is normal operating procedure for your company I would run far and fast.
Re: Ask HN: Why is Microsoft Teams still so bad?
#800We've been using teams in our org since inception and i haven't experienced any of these issues.