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Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

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Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#281

Post by rhdunn »

foepys wrote: post #252
ht85 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. And the acquisitions... I've had countless minecraft sessions ruined because of microsoft account / store issues. Don't even get me started on realms and the chat policing bulls…

> Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. It's even worse. I want to open Notepad++ and begin to type N -> notepad.exe No -> notepad.exe Not -> Notepad++ Note -> notepad.exe Notep -> Notepad++ Notepa -> Notepad++ Notepad -> notepad.exe The times I actually wanted to open notepad.exe is exactly 0 but the stupid algorithm sees me mistakenly opening notepad.exe…

I think that's down to the way it has remembered/saved your search as I get a similar behaviour with "Camera" and "Turn off camera access systemwide" -- "c", "ca", and "came" suggest the Camera app and "cam", "camer", and "camera" suggest the system setting.

I use both of these, and it looks like Windows has remembered I select one or the other at a given point, so is saving that suggestion.

It also likely has built in associations for the default applications (notepad, camera, etc.) that you've overridden by selecting notepad++ at those points. If you select/locate notepad++ at the other positions, I wonder if it will start suggesting that instead.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#282

Post by 9dev »

svnpenn wrote: post #239
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling someone to just use Linux comes from a position of privilege. Not everyone is tech savvy (no, I don't care about your grandma being able to write her own video drivers) and many people must use software that's not available on Linux. No, the open source version isn't the same thing and saying "just use WINE" is once again coming from a position of privilege. Overall, telling people to just use Linux is one th…

even if everything you said is true (and thats a stretch), what does that have to do with the person calling the other a zealot for using the word Linux? It seems by your logic, calling a Linux user a zealot is fine. Also by your logic, if someone casually suggests trying Linux, then that person is abusing their privilege and lacks empathy.

Zealot: „a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.“

Calling someone who says „just use Linux“ from a position of privilege due to a lot of domain knowledge, and therefore being uncompromising, does make sense though.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#283

Post by thereisnospork »

foepys wrote: post #252
ht85 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. And the acquisitions... I've had countless minecraft sessions ruined because of microsoft account / store issues. Don't even get me started on realms and the chat policing bulls…

> Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. It's even worse. I want to open Notepad++ and begin to type N -> notepad.exe No -> notepad.exe Not -> Notepad++ Note -> notepad.exe Notep -> Notepad++ Notepa -> Notepad++ Notepad -> notepad.exe The times I actually wanted to open notepad.exe is exactly 0 but the stupid algorithm sees me mistakenly opening notepad.exe…

It's also slow[0], or not properly cached. Half the time I bang out 'c-m-d-' to open a command prompt and I either get nothing or a program that doesn't contain any of 'c' 'm' or 'd' in its name. Which is aggravating because the 'Win then type the first 3ish letters of the program you want then hit enter to open it' workflow is so good[0] but MS makes it hard to be smooth and repeatable with it.

[0]Honestly how? I have 32GB of ram, the name and directory of every program I've ever run probably fits in 100kB. You could even presort the list by the first two possible letters (26^2) at a tolerable memory usage.

[1]To my tastes anyway.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#284

Post by nickzana »

g_p wrote: post #157
throwaway41597 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't sure what your concern was, but is it that? 1 ) Hardware authenticators won't spit their root secret, almost by design. 2 ) Webauthn doesn't require that the authenticator store the list of accounts, also by design (for privacy). So if you want to switch from iPhone to Android, you have to remember all websites you used Passkey on, and go one by one hunting down the right security settings page.

My concern isn't either, although both are interesting discussions - 1 in particular is relevant but understandable, as this prevents you from pairing tokens so you can maintain an off-site backup you don't have to retrieve every time you make a new account. The specific challenge here is around software webauthn for passwordless access (think using Safari to create an account on a site). In this scenario, the averag…

Passkeys do have a (partial) solution to this problem: multi-device credentials. See the videos at the bottom of [1].

Say you install an app/visit a website on your phone and register an account with a passkey. My current understanding is that on iOS 16, the passkey lives in your iCloud keychain. If you want to sign in on a Mac on Safari, you can just visit the website and the discoverable credential from your phone will appear when you try to log into the site with webauthn. The website will be able to tell that you're logging in from a new device and optionally require additional authentication.

If you want to sign in on a device that doesn't have access to your keychain, you can use your phone as an authenticator over a combination of Bluetooth and a tunnel server by scanning a QR code on that device with your phone. The site is then supposed to prompt you to register the new device with whatever its local passkey solution is.

The best source I could find for how this protocol works at a technical level is an episode of "Security. Cryptography. Whatever" on passkeys. I guess the specs aren't exactly public yet (at least since I last checked) and are only available to fido alliance members.

I've been trying to work on figuring out ways to build a "passkey manager" of sorts to live up to the potential webauthn offers with hardware-backed credentials that are also synced and backed up (to an offsite key). As far as I can tell, as mentioned in another comment, this just doesn't seem to be a priority for the fido alliance, which is a real shame.

I'm cautiously waiting to see how 1Password deals with passkeys, given that they're one of the few FIDO members with a vested interest in being cross platform, but I'm betting they'll just implement a software keystore built into their current vaults without any hardware backing.

[1] https://fidoalliance.org/multi-device-fido-credentials/

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#285

Post by rhdunn »

puzzledobserver wrote: post #268
tinus_hn wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to use a Microsoft account if you’re installing Windows 10 and it doesn’t have an internet connection when you run the wizard.

To install Windows 11 without a Microsoft account involves bringing up a command prompt in the middle of the installation process and typing some magic incantations. It's clearly not what Microsoft wants users to be doing.

I got Windows 11 Pro on my new machine for the sole purpose of avoiding that BS (and have it running without an account), but now you can't even do that on new installs without those workarounds. It's a dark pattern akin to Amazon trying to get you to use Amazon Prime when purchasing something on Amazon.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#287

Post by jeppester »

This claim is so obviously true, that it's hardly a claim.

We should treat it like a fact, and talk about what we want to do about it. If we do nothing then these megacorps will use their power to unfairly outcompete or plain buy up all competition but the other megacorps.

We can either have a world with maybe 50 gigantic corporations or thousands of smaller, but still large businesses. I personally think the latter would be much better for democracy and distribution of wealth.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#288

Post by zvrba »

ht85 wrote: post #140
arnvald wrote: post #3

They're right, recently I've installed some Windows update for my parents and I had to reject like 5 suggested changes - installing Office trial, switching default browser to Edge yet again, and more. But this goes way beyond the browsers - I've never explicitly installed Keychain on my iphone and yet it shows as an option next to 1password every time I fill in a password field. Google calendar asks me to install an…

The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. And the acquisitions... I've had countless minecraft sessions ruined because of microsoft account / store issues. Don't even get me started on realms and the chat policing bulls…

I don't get the hate on Edge. I use it daily and am very happy. Not the least, it includes some cool security features, i.e., sandboxing at the OS-level https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-pr...

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#289

Post by pjmlp »

userbinator wrote: post #233
pjmlp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Windows 10 plenty of security features rely on Windows actually running as a guest OS on Hyper V, like secure kernel and device guard, hence turning on the hypervisor.

Securing the software against you, to be fair.

Against the anti-virus that granny downloaded from pop-up on the browser telling her that Microsoft support found a virus.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#290

Post by justinclift »

zvrba wrote: post #288
ht85 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. And the acquisitions... I've had countless minecraft sessions ruined because of microsoft account / store issues. Don't even get me started on realms and the chat policing bulls…

I don't get the hate on Edge. I use it daily and am very happy. Not the least, it includes some cool security features, i.e., sandboxing at the OS-level https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-pr...

Perhaps because it's being forced down people's throats, rather than people being able to make their own choice?
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