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Association Between Maternal Fluoride Exposure During Pregnancy and IQ Scores

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Re: Association Between Maternal Fluoride Exposure During Pregnancy and IQ Scores

#41
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just repeating yourself and then making hand-waving attacks on scientists. This is the tier of "argument" we hear from anti-vaxxers. Surely you can do better than vague ad hominems implying either incompetence or malfeasance? Such claims require evidence. Yes there is a replicability crisis in much of the social sciences. Yes cargo cult science[1] has been a real problem and continues to be. Nevertheless there…

There can't be a "replication" problem for IQ. There is no theory of intelligence provided, there are no independent valid and reliable measures of it, and there has been no work to show IQ measures it. The argument is just, "I rekon intelligence has something to do with quizes like this, and look, there are correlations in people's answers!" That's the premise of the entire field. It doesnt have a theory of intellig…

> There can't be a "replication" problem for IQ. There is no theory of intelligence provided, there are no independent valid and reliable measures of it, and there has been no work to show IQ measures it. The argument is just, "I rekon intelligence has something to do with quizes like this, and look, there are correlations in people's answers!"

Is your claim now that there is no such thing as intelligence? If we accept that premise then sure the whole field is bunk, because you can't measure something that doesn't exist. However I consider such a claim as ludicrous as saying that there is no such thing as strength, so if that's your position then I don't think I have much to learn from you.

Meanwhile, the g factor[1] is a theory of intelligence that basically says people who are good at one kind of cognitive task will also be good at other kinds of cognitive tasks. Is that entirely satisfactory? I've already said there's room for improvement. Nevertheless we have to start somewhere, and given the complexity of the array of phenotypes we associate with intelligence the g factor isn't a bad start.

> any even plausible scientifically-grounded theory of intelligence would pretty clearly invalidate IQ as a measure of it.

This sounds like an easy claim to support. Since you are enthusiastically anti-psychometry I assume you've done the research. What do you mean by "plausible scientifically grounded?" Would you please give a supporting example?

> HN isnt a place to give a lecture course on statistics, causal modelling and the scientific method. But the vast majority of people I'm aware of with serious work in those areas, regard this entire field as pseudoscience. It is only researchers within this field who believe otherwise, and they arent professionals.

HN is a place for satisfying intellectual curiosity. You would be contributing to the site's reason for existing by giving an abbreviated lecture actually showing that you have a point rather than just appealing to unknown authorities.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics)

Re: Association Between Maternal Fluoride Exposure During Pregnancy and IQ Scores

#42
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IQ is the most strongly supported thing in the field of social science/psychology. Way more strongly supported than many of the concepts being used to steer government policy The irony being that tons of social science academics desperately want to prove IQ is bunk and become famous for it, but their failures just keep proving it's legitimacy. If only they tried so hard to disprove their own pet theories

IQ as a measurement of general intelligence has been repeatedly called into question and deligitimized with strong evidence by the fields of psychology and sociology for 30+ years for myriad reasons. In fact, most of the continuing proponents for IQ testing take the stance of "We don't have anything better, so we will use it even if it's deeply flawed." This viewpoint is so prevalent that a majority of studies on the…

Intelligence quotients are relevant to developing infants. Think about it.

Re: Association Between Maternal Fluoride Exposure During Pregnancy and IQ Scores

#43
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are supposed to have lower fluorine than tap water. According to the CDC, babies who only drink formula with tap water can develop dental fluorosis, faint white lines on the teeth.[1]. It’s not always possible to breastfeed. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/faqs/infant-formula.html

From your link it mentions to use water “without any fluoride added after purification treatment. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires the label to indicate when fluoride is added.” The water I’m referring to is exactly the kind of water the CDC recommends against using, yet that is not at all obvious from the label. IIRC it is sold right next to the infant formula implying it should be used. Again, w…

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Re: Association Between Maternal Fluoride Exposure During Pregnancy and IQ Scores

#44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All law and medical schools i'm aware of require IQ tests for admission, they're often called "aptitude" or "admissions" tests

Yeah, that's not a thing here.

The Abitur isn't a thing anymore?

Re: Association Between Maternal Fluoride Exposure During Pregnancy and IQ Scores

#45
post #44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's not a thing here.

The Abitur isn't a thing anymore?

Of course it is, but it's not "literally an IQ test" in that the result is not an IQ. Universities don't require an IQ above 105 to apply, they require good grades.

Apparently in other places, doctors and lawyers literally take an IQ test, which is bizarre.

Or maybe the original poster has an unusually broad understanding of what's an IQ test, in that pretty much any (written?) examination qualifies. Which would transform his thesis from "IQs are a sham" to "any evaluation of specific aptitude and knowledge is a sham".

Re: Association Between Maternal Fluoride Exposure During Pregnancy and IQ Scores

#46
post #45
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Abitur isn't a thing anymore?

Of course it is, but it's not "literally an IQ test" in that the result is not an IQ. Universities don't require an IQ above 105 to apply, they require good grades. Apparently in other places, doctors and lawyers literally take an IQ test, which is bizarre. Or maybe the original poster has an unusually broad understanding of what's an IQ test, in that pretty much any (written?) examination qualifies. Which would tran…

Yes, I believe that's essentially his thesis, at least with respect to aptitude, based on my discussion with him in a sister thread.

He's apparently referring to the MCAT and LSAT, which serve as entrance examinations for medical and law schools respectively.

Similarly the SAT, which is the undergraduate entrance examination used by many schools, is a very good predictor for score on an actual IQ test. So much so that one can conflate the two without really being very wrong.

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