Yeah, it's worrisome to see immigrants or (especially) naturalized or native-born citizens with strong ties overseas leave the US to start companies. But not necessarily a bad thing. If they are leaving because the US has become an unfriendly place to new businesses, especially in high tech, that's bad. If they are leaving because opportunities overseas are exceptional, and it's easier to capitalize on those opportun…
Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
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Re: Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
#12I'm really interested in what compels entrepreneurs to leave a country or area that was formerly a hub for startups. I posted before in the context of SOPA: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3265961 What would it take for you to leave the place you are based now and try your luck somewhere else?
I can think of a number of reasons. -If you make hard-goods, being closer to your manufacturing may be helpful -Cheaper staffing/skilled labor in non-US countries -Cheaper cost of living elsewhere -More corporation-friendly tax regulations
But I think personal reasons play a huge role in this decision. A majority of the people tend to only leave when the situation becomes unbearable (or not even then).
What would it take for you to leave your home country/area?
I guess it's hard to say until it actually happens. One reason for me to leave would be an oppressive government, I guess.
Re: Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can think of a number of reasons. -If you make hard-goods, being closer to your manufacturing may be helpful -Cheaper staffing/skilled labor in non-US countries -Cheaper cost of living elsewhere -More corporation-friendly tax regulations
Rationally those are compelling reasons for a business to leave. But I think personal reasons play a huge role in this decision. A majority of the people tend to only leave when the situation becomes unbearable (or not even then). What would it take for you to leave your home country/area? I guess it's hard to say until it actually happens. One reason for me to leave would be an oppressive government, I guess.
Re: Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
#14I'm an immigrant. I'm considering heavily to go back home and start a business there (online, offline, doesn't matter). Reasons? cheaper workforce, more power, more connections, cherry picking, bigger pond, more people (consumers), etc.
I'll be using North America to include both US and Canada for the rest of my comment.
Here are a few more detailed examples (all of them are of course anecdotes to me):
Managing westerners that believe that they're entitled for everything such as perks, private offices, their choice of programming languages, their choice of best practices are often a time consuming activity. Back home, I can drive the workforce to do the best practices that I believe without having to have long discussions. Give them laptop, give them work, they're happy. This is because their mindset, perspective, and standard are different than here in North America. They're also cheaper.
After working with many programmers throughout my careers, I kind of grow a belief that I can train the less "creative" developers back home to be at the same level at most of the programmers in North America. They might not reach the level of superstar engineers, but they will reach the level of more than good enough at where I will be.
Connection is a big thing. It's harder to have a connection in N.A., especially when you're an immigrant (maybe it's just me). Where I come from, hooking up with people who have excess money is very easy. Especially when you graduate from a pretty good N.A. university (doesn't have to be Wharton or Harvard, UC Berkeley, UC Irvine is enough). They look at you as someone who has something "more" (whatever more that is).
In Iowa, you're nobody. In the [Capital City of your ancestor's land], you're something. Imagine that.
Overall, I find that the majority of large Asian cities are probably more alive than some well-known (but not necessarily large) N.A. cities.
Again, all of these are anecdotes.
Re: Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
#15I'm really interested in what compels entrepreneurs to leave a country or area that was formerly a hub for startups. I posted before in the context of SOPA: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3265961 What would it take for you to leave the place you are based now and try your luck somewhere else?
I can think of a number of reasons. -If you make hard-goods, being closer to your manufacturing may be helpful -Cheaper staffing/skilled labor in non-US countries -Cheaper cost of living elsewhere -More corporation-friendly tax regulations
Re: Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
#16This is just one anecdote. I don't see a broader trend of entrepreneurs fleeing the U.S. It's true, entrepreneurs are outside-the-box thinkers, so they may do unexpected things. Though the U.S. has plenty of troubles, I don't believe it's any better anywhere else. (Except maybe Canada :-) I'm not from there, though, so I wouldn't know.)
> Except maybe Canada Canada is generally regarded as a terrible place for startups, unfortunately. The laws are pretty restrictive towards "disruptive" technologies and the government always bends in favour of the existing players.
Re: Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
#17Re: Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
#18There are gazzilion reasons why people opted to do business back home as opposed to the U.S. and all of them are probably similar decision-making as to choosing your next programming languages: there's no one reason to rule them all. I'm an immigrant. I'm considering heavily to go back home and start a business there (online, offline, doesn't matter). Reasons? cheaper workforce, more power, more connections, cherry p…
But this where you may be missing out on the value of a worker. In this day in age, someone who just cranks out something to a mold or specification is not as valuable to an organization. I'd much rather pay someone 5 times as much if they can think on their feet and not always have to rely on me to figure out how they should be working. Constantly having to define practices for a team of lemmings is a typically exhausting full time gig when you're the only one to take initiative and guide. The other problem is that we all make bad decisions from time to time and it is important to make sure we have competent people around us to correct our course when that occurs rather than a bunch of yes-men.
Re: Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
#19Re: Why are entrepreneurs leaving the U.S.?
#20There are gazzilion reasons why people opted to do business back home as opposed to the U.S. and all of them are probably similar decision-making as to choosing your next programming languages: there's no one reason to rule them all. I'm an immigrant. I'm considering heavily to go back home and start a business there (online, offline, doesn't matter). Reasons? cheaper workforce, more power, more connections, cherry p…
"Back home, I can drive the workforce to do the best practices that I believe without having to have long discussions" But this where you may be missing out on the value of a worker. In this day in age, someone who just cranks out something to a mold or specification is not as valuable to an organization. I'd much rather pay someone 5 times as much if they can think on their feet and not always have to rely on me to…
These best practices are just the foundation, not necessary the long-term solutions. Once you have a set of standard, there's always room for improvement or changes.
The biggest problem with N.A. workers is that they can be categorized into 3 types when it comes to "Do Things":
- Do as they pleased (cause they think they know it all)
- Follow the best practice
- Follow the latest and greatest best practice and create some sort of work revolution in the middle of directing the ship toward the goal
You kind of need a "Yes-Man" if you're on early stage of startup inventing your own dream (I'm sure this is going to open a can of worm but hey... it's your startup).
I'm not discussing whether this is the best way or the worst way. I'm focusing on the "why" people chose culture that prefer "Yes-Man". It could be a way for them to exploit human psychology for all I know.
That's the thing. You need to be there to see how things are happening/working. It's totally different in there (Asia) than in here (US).
Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmare advises won't work in Asia while it may work in US or UK.