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Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

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Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#42
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way? That's like asking, how is a motorist giving another motorist space, if he expects a motorist moving at 8 mph to pull over? The faster motorist expects the slower one just to give up a portion of the space, for just a couple of seconds, to let them pass. Afterward, the slower one can have that space all to themselves unt…

If a cyclist has to yield to every passing car, then in any busy area (where most people travel) the cyclist effectively always has to be off to the side, which is not safe. If the cyclist is not occupying an actual lane to themselves then they are constantly being passed too close by fast moving vehicles, and in danger of running into the suddenly-opening doors of parked cars or surprise pedestrians. Seriously, if y…

[deleted]

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#43

Cyclists and cars should not be on the same roads. It's silly to pretend that drawing some chevrons on the road or making a law that you need to do whatever around cyclists will make a difference. People who want cycling options should be advocating for separate paths dedicated to cycling, with proper signals when they need to cross car lanes so there is no ambiguity

This seems to be where we are. But it's so shit, so bad.

Few agree, but as a bicyclist I much greater enjoyed being a part of traffic than assigned to a small narrow detached lane that has to at evey junction re-assess speedy mortal death threats abundant. Having freedom of the road & being part of the stream of traffic felt way better to me than being cordoned to a 2 ft wide lane that still regularly crosses the irresponsible/reckless/jerkwad zone. Having one multi-speed lane of traffic feels less complex to me, easier & safer than having a lot of different paces, different decoupled lanes: dealing with one another & sharing the space felt simpler easier & better, evemngiven how broadly ignorant rude & useless drivers were with their death metal machines versus bikes. But my city is pretty advantageous naturally towards bikes; cars just dont matter, are always slow, always encumbered, & bicyclists co-relationship is much better, much less limited & obviously more free, just mnturally.

The bicyclists co-relational advantage is basically ignored & unappreciated. The scariness of drivers is overwhelming. They behave horribly & are constant terrible mortal threat. So we each need separate lanes. Even though they are very limiting & scary, create totally different systems of people not recognizing & seeing each other that are so horrible, but limited to intersections & crossings, versus a pattern of coexistence. As a bicyclist, I preffered coexistence, but drivers are absurs insane disrespectful manslaugtering easily triggered monsters with little perception or awareness & worse behavior.

So! Separate lanes it is. I liked where we were better; I'd risk it. But I get why separate lanes is the shitry pathetic place we have to be to make this all reasonable. To defend against abundantly terrible & killing drivers.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#44
post #26

When cycling without bike lanes, I ride in the safest way I can: I often take up the middle of the lane at stopping intersections so that I get a turn in the queue and I have direct visual communication with drivers, and to eliminate at least one of the potential conflicts at the intersection. (Right hand turners from beside/behind in your lane.) I sometimes use a car in my lane as a "blocker" if I'm convinced it's n…

Wholehearted second this. The best advice to bikers who aren't traveling at kids speeds is "take the lane". Prevents dooring and being run off the road. My only take is that I wouldn't be comfortable doing this if I didn't have proper lighting (front headlamp + Garmin Navia rear radar is huge confidence boost) and comfort in demanding drivers acknowledge my presence.

Garmin Varia radar you mean?

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#45
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Wherever bicycles and cars share the same routes, at roughly the same speed, they should share the same roads - at a speed that is safe for everyone, so about 30km/h. For routes and speeds that are different (highways), roads should be separated.

30 kph is absurdly fast for city bikes and really slow for cars on any long stretch of road. So it's only relevant for like 1% of roads that are very windy and only sport cyclists go.

That is BS. Because that is my default speed on a 3-speed from about 1985 on flat grounds. Damn! So absurd, I must be from the future, or something.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#46

When cycling without bike lanes, I ride in the safest way I can: I often take up the middle of the lane at stopping intersections so that I get a turn in the queue and I have direct visual communication with drivers, and to eliminate at least one of the potential conflicts at the intersection. (Right hand turners from beside/behind in your lane.) I sometimes use a car in my lane as a "blocker" if I'm convinced it's n…

I ride at 1/3 of the lane and in the middle in intersections. This is the safest way since it avoids doors and forces motorists to overtake on the other lane instead of pushing you into the sidewalk. It prevents running over you in intersections, while also providing enough space for retreating near the sidewalk. If I have enough safe space I retreat and let them pass.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#47

And so they paint the ground on the bike lane... rain + paint might as well be wet leaves or black ice.

no sure about the US, but where I live that green paint actually has bits of ground up glass and other stuff in it for friction, its sparkly when you shine light on it.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#48
post #21

Madrid is not that good for riding to commute even though ‘We are Europeans’ here.

The level of impatience I observed among drivers in Spain was pretty amazing. Europe is a diverse place.

Drivers are very impatient in Sicily even compared to Eastern Europe, but they're also used to cyclists (and motorini) and quite able to share the road with them.

In my city there's growing respect towards cyclists since the gig economy and the onset of bicycle delivery. 80% of cyclists are delivery persons.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#49
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way? That's like asking, how is a motorist giving another motorist space, if he expects a motorist moving at 8 mph to pull over? The faster motorist expects the slower one just to give up a portion of the space, for just a couple of seconds, to let them pass. Afterward, the slower one can have that space all to themselves unt…

If a cyclist has to yield to every passing car, then in any busy area (where most people travel) the cyclist effectively always has to be off to the side, which is not safe. If the cyclist is not occupying an actual lane to themselves then they are constantly being passed too close by fast moving vehicles, and in danger of running into the suddenly-opening doors of parked cars or surprise pedestrians. Seriously, if y…

If you can't move at or above the posted speed limit, let others pass. It's as simple as that. You're not entitled to impede others. All users of the road are entitled to move at the speed limit, when there there is no problem ahead such as an accident, congestion, obstruction or construction. If you're not yourself impeded by such a predicament, and have an open road in front of you, you have no right to arbitrarily impede those behind you. It is simply rude.

Don't go down roads where it's impossible to pass you, unless you can do the speed limit there. Don't go down roads where there are parked cars, but only a small clearance between parked cars and traffic moving faster than you. Or any analogous situation: like small clearance between a concrete wall and traffic or whatever. Find roads where there aren't parked cars, or else where there is a generous space between the parking strip and traffic, so that you can avoid doors, and there is room to pass you. Where I live, many of the larger streets that have two lanes in each direction, and a solid car's width between parked cars and traffic. Someone opening a small door will not door you, and you have time to avoid a large door being swung fully open. You can also find roads where there is simply not much traffic, so you can have them all to yourself most of the time.

Drivers are not supposed to approach you closely when they pass; that's against the traffic code where I live, and likely in most places. A cyclist or motorcyclist must be passed as if they had an invisible car around them, so to speak. However, by straying farther into the lane, you're encouraging a reduction of the space between you and and the car that passes you anyway, which is counterproductive.

Parked cars are a menace, no doubt. In some countries, they don't allow street parking in cities. To register a car, you must prove that you have some place off the street to stash it when you're not driving it. North American cities should follow suit.

> little damage to their car, and so they have little reason to care

You're simply a lunatic with this remark. Most drivers are normal people, not psychopaths, and are absolutely terrified of the idea of injuring or killing a pedestrian or cyclist. That's still true even if some of their behaviors need improvement.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30 kph is absurdly fast for city bikes and really slow for cars on any long stretch of road. So it's only relevant for like 1% of roads that are very windy and only sport cyclists go.

That is BS. Because that is my default speed on a 3-speed from about 1985 on flat grounds. Damn! So absurd, I must be from the future, or something.

My fast speed now is about 22 kph.

I'm definitely not as fast as I was when I was a teenager in 1985.

I'm even slower when carrying a kid on the back.

Looks like Google Maps uses 20 kph for their average bike speed. (I measured a rails-to-trails route; 12.3 miles in 1 hour = 19.8 km.)

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