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Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#411

Post by dessant »

brap wrote: post #398
moralestapia wrote: post #248

(wrt some comments in this thread) Is it so hard to believe that Meta is snooping on WhatsApp conversations? Meta, a company of unprecedented size that was built over monetizing your private data? A company who's been caught in plenty of scandals (like Cambridge Analytic) about this exact sort of thing (violating their users' privacy)? Someone from this community, which generally means educated, tech-literate and sen…

For anyone who has ever worked at a FAANG like company in the last decade, yes, this is actually very hard to believe. Despite the shady image they have, these companies go to great lengths to avoid doing shady things (because ultimately it’s bad for business). Not to mention the hundreds of tech employees that would have to be involved and keep quiet in this type of “conspiracy”. It’s incredibly unlikely, I truly be…

I can imagine you haven't been involved in anything illegal, but I'm sure you've aware of Meta's documented track record of coordinated illegal actions. Do engineering teams just fall head first into a bucket of 2FA phone numbers and start using the data for ad targeting, and nobody bats an eye from the legal department to product managers? Or are they hypnotized to build services for biometric data collection without consent? Nobody does anything nefarious, but their collective actions which benefit the company just end up being illegal, again and again?

The tech companies you work for do often engage in illegal activities, and some of your collegues are complicit. I'm sure it is an uncomfortable thought for some of you, but this is all part of the public record.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#413

Post by pfortuny »

rr888 wrote: post #357
jtbayly wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. No, that's precisely what End-to-End encryption means.

End-to-End is about the networking, not the end points. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_encryption#Endpoint...

That is the technical definition.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#414

Post by madeofpalk »

moralestapia wrote: post #248

(wrt some comments in this thread) Is it so hard to believe that Meta is snooping on WhatsApp conversations? Meta, a company of unprecedented size that was built over monetizing your private data? A company who's been caught in plenty of scandals (like Cambridge Analytic) about this exact sort of thing (violating their users' privacy)? Someone from this community, which generally means educated, tech-literate and sen…

> Is it so hard to believe that Meta is snooping on WhatsApp conversations?

Where's the evidence? I don't know what ethos "Hacker News" is supposed to capture, but surely it's not superstition?

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#415

Post by the_optimist »

From first-hand authority, some encrypted/secure apps have client-side feature detection. Leaking features doesn’t count as violating a standard. May be running something like a named entity recognizer or keyword/category recognizer that is “sufficiently” anonymized. This on photos too; of course this can be adjusted for device parameters, battery availability, and geolocation. I cannot speak to WhatsApp specifically, but note this directly from at least one other popular messaging app. I would absolutely assume no encryption exists. Rats in the opera house.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#416

Post by moralestapia »

mgraczyk wrote: post #375
moralestapia wrote: post #248

(wrt some comments in this thread) Is it so hard to believe that Meta is snooping on WhatsApp conversations? Meta, a company of unprecedented size that was built over monetizing your private data? A company who's been caught in plenty of scandals (like Cambridge Analytic) about this exact sort of thing (violating their users' privacy)? Someone from this community, which generally means educated, tech-literate and sen…

It's hard to believe because I worked there and worked on this stuff (data and ML side) and know that they aren't.

>I worked there [...] and know that they aren't

I know that, unfortunately, this is what puts bread on your mouth.

But, really? Are you suggesting that Cambridge Analytica didn't happen? Did we all hallucinate that?

You guys jumped the shark already. These attempts at damage control are laughable.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#417

Post by pb7 »

FreeHugs wrote: post #5

Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. Meta has control over the app Sue uses. So they could send them to Meta unencrypted in addition to sending them to Joe in an encrypted fashion. Or they just extract the relevant terms: Sue->Joe: "Hello Joe, I'm so excited! We are going to have a baby! Let's call it Dingbert. You're not the father! Ji…

Meta->Joe: “Focus on yourself bro”

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#418

Post by mgraczyk »

moralestapia wrote: post #416
mgraczyk wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to believe because I worked there and worked on this stuff (data and ML side) and know that they aren't.

>I worked there [...] and know that they aren't I know that, unfortunately, this is what puts bread on your mouth. But, really? Are you suggesting that Cambridge Analytica didn't happen? Did we all hallucinate that? You guys jumped the shark already. These attempts at damage control are laughable.

It's not what puts bread in my mouth though. I don't work there now and don't work on anything related to ads or messaging.

CA happened but that has nothing to do with this. The policies that allowed CA to collect data were very public, Zuck enthusiastically talked about the open knowledge graph all the time prior to CA, much to the dismay of many investors. Facebook didn't lie in that case, they misjudged the potential to misuse open data access, and the potential for negative PR as a result.

By analogy, it's like you're the landlord of an apartment building and you don't lock the front door. You put up a huge sign saying "this door is unlocked, everyone is welcome". You sell ads for your building embracing the unlocked door policy. Then somebody walks in and photographs all the tenants through their windows. Suddenly people who didn't care about the unlocked policy are now very angry, and rightly so. But this is completely different from collecting data, lying about it, and operating a massive conspiracy to conceal the data use from literally tens of thousands of employees who would normally be able to see it.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#419

Post by stvswn »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #328
Firmwarrior wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying to record ads you see about it on TV or something? (Just to eliminate the "My computer is secretly recording me" angle)

The problem is, your smart TV could be spying you too, if it's capable of voice commands or videoconference. If you discuss sex toys near it, at least some related keywords could make their way to targeted advertising. My wife and I routinely use ad blockers, private browser windows, browser profiles, and try to use as little ad-supported products as possible. This doesn't stop targeted advertising, I guess because m…

Smart TVs in general use IP address to try target devices across households, which is against the privacy policies of a lot of ad tech providers because IPs are not redactable/resettable by an end-user.

The best way for small ad tech providers to compete with "big tech" has been to cross lines that the bigger companies won't cross, this is an example for why there are a lot of profitable ad tech companies in the connected TV / video ads space.

Even if you use a VPN, the TV itself likely has a unique ID for ads, so someone just needs to see one request with both the true IP and the unique device ID and then remember that for the future. It's all very shady. TVs are very far behind the level of user control that phones and browsers provide because there's less scrutiny and its more fragmented across manufacturers (all of which want to get in on ad tech).

You can usually find some opt-out of the identifiers if you dig deep enough into the menus, because multiple laws and regulations require them.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#420

Post by Aunche »

moralestapia wrote: post #248

(wrt some comments in this thread) Is it so hard to believe that Meta is snooping on WhatsApp conversations? Meta, a company of unprecedented size that was built over monetizing your private data? A company who's been caught in plenty of scandals (like Cambridge Analytic) about this exact sort of thing (violating their users' privacy)? Someone from this community, which generally means educated, tech-literate and sen…

Being educated and tech-literate means that you should try to think more critically than "Facebook bad." You brought up Cambridge Analytica as your scandal of choice, which is the most newsworthy scandal, but the one where Facebook is the least guilty. Everyone had the same access to the APIs that Cambridge Analytica did and Facebook had shut down those APIs before the story broke out. Acting on instinct will only lead to regulation will won't be effective at stopping what you're trying to stop, cause needless side effects, and undermine your political credibility to push for changes that solve the important issues.
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