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Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

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Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teachers are service providers. They should have no deeper emotional bond with their students than the cashier at McDonald's has with their regular customers. Students are not friends. While the isolated story of your teacher sharing her wedding pictures is not a big ordeal, it shows an underlying problem of poor boundaries. We have a pervasive problem, at least in the US, of teacher with poor mental health and poor…

I find this approach so sad. We've let the corporatization of everything build such huge walls between us as humans. Seeing every interaction as transactional and emotionless just feels like death to me.

Exactly - and teachers specifically have always been exactly formative figures in your youth.

At least in my country, what the GP is saying is almost the precise opposite of how the pupil-teacher relationship is conceptualized. Indeed, people often bemoan teachers who just think they're providing a service, instead of taking their responsibility as mentors seriously.

Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is idealistic thinking however there are countless cases where a ban was done by a bad actor or bad algorithm, with the only recourse being a user taking their ban to another platform to complain, and if they gain enough traction on another platform then they get the ban reversed. Unfortunately that only works for large creators while small creators have zero recourse for unjust bans.

So you believe that a website should be regulated in how it manages user access? So if I have a forum for betta fish owners and I don't want spammers or trolls then I must justify my bans to some bureaucrat in DC or the state capital? Seriously, this is why I don't buy there's any good faith behind these laws.

In a way yes, if that website reaches a certain size, say 100 million users or whatever point makes that service more important to businesses than even the phone company. There is blurring of the line between user and employee when many content creators make their entire living from their posts. They get paid by these companies to run ads on their content, so the comparison to an employee is actually a good one. Even if they weren’t paid all the time they created something of value there, a following, and a malicious ban needs to be protected against. Again, say my company gives advice or the phone, and the phone company’s CEO decides my advice is bad and shuts down my service, that would be wrong. You see companies blame say Facebook for being toxic but in reality it is the people on it they should be blaming. They just don’t like what their own friends, who they decided to follow, have to say. Blaming Facebook for toxicity is like finding a guy sitting in their own house and knocking on their door I hear what they have to say then complaining about what they said, and calling the police to make them shut up. All of these sites have blocking tools, or just don’t follow them.

Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If not, continuing to use the misnomer is spreading misinformation. Just like the reframing of "woke" and "critical race theory" are misinformation - right? Right? I have accepted that reframing language is now a legitimate political tool, and from my PoV, the right has been doing it a lot, such as labelling any milquetoast protest by groups nominally on the left an "insurrection" after 1/6. I believe it's a delibe…

I was raised that two wrongs don't make right. I'll continue to take the high road. I don't need to score points against anyone else.

> I was raised that two wrongs don't make right.

You'll likely make a terrible politician[1] then, because that is a terrible approach in game theory when facing an opponent who defects consistently.

I was being descriptive - not prescriptive. This is now our political reality regardless of how we feel about it: politicians hold entire hearings to get 10-second sound-bites, and political operatives focus-group effective language which tends to be pithy and evocative (which gets called "misinformation" on HN when it's the other side doing it). Talking heads get coached on which phrases to use and the meme (in the original sense) gets spread and repeated by viewers/listeners. Asking people to stop using a specific term which was selected for being catchy is a losing battle - Pandora's box was opened on what are effectively PsyOps by political parties.

1. Jimmy Carter was a terrible politician in the same vein - he gave an honest answer when asked by the press if he had lusted after any woman who's not his wife. He is a good man, but that's not good politics.

Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning books that talk against the Holocaust and promoting books that talk about gender-related surgeries are nowhere close in the damage they can potentially create even if you take the most pessimistic stance possible about the later, a sense of proportion is needed in any discussion.

I hope you can see the hypocrisy and bias in your desire to ban ideas you dislike – it's dangerous. A better outcome would be to fight bad ideas with good ideas.

And I hope you see the hipocrisy in saying that my idea about banning ideas that are bad for society is a bad idea. Because if that was your "good idea" vs my "bad idea" it didn't win that fight, just like it almost never does, and instead marketing, marketing budgets, preconceived notions, convenient beliefs, upbringing, the hard limit in the number of ideas one can learn about in one's lifetime and many other factors outweighs the fantasy that all ideas should be given equal exposure, as in a book titled "we should kill black people" should be countered with one titled "we shouldn't kill black people" and that every single person in every generation should extensively read both and come to their own conclusion and not use any conclusion society already learned as a whole.

Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you believe that a website should be regulated in how it manages user access? So if I have a forum for betta fish owners and I don't want spammers or trolls then I must justify my bans to some bureaucrat in DC or the state capital? Seriously, this is why I don't buy there's any good faith behind these laws.

In a way yes, if that website reaches a certain size, say 100 million users or whatever point makes that service more important to businesses than even the phone company. There is blurring of the line between user and employee when many content creators make their entire living from their posts. They get paid by these companies to run ads on their content, so the comparison to an employee is actually a good one. Even…

You have so many assumptions in this comment but I will sum up my response as best as I can.

First, websites are websites. It doesn't matter if it's Facebook or your own personal blog, they're functionally identical in terms of features. They both have a means to communicate with other visitors and they're nominally accessible to the public at large with one being more popular than the other. Meaning that you're saying that if hypothetically a personal blog became popular then the blogger couldn't just delete posts they didn't like even though they're on the hook for hosting content (paying the host provider, laboring to write the content, laboring to moderate the content, and so forth). This seems suspicious to me since it treats being popular with being a monopoly which the two aren't the same. Facebook can ban you but you and your friends can freely setup a VPS with a web forum and keep it private among yourselves to talk and socialize. If say Comcast banned you then I would think you'd have an argument but with a website, it makes no sense in the context that you have an alternative to communicate with users but that you don't have a right to communicate via a specific application/platform.

Second, you're not owed a successful business model. This is important as you talk about folks making a living on websites like Facebook or YouTube (which is more relevant in my opinion). If the case law did bear out the opposite then any act of blocking spamming, scams, or other disruptive economic activity on websites would be illegal but it's not thankfully. I'd rather deal with having several websites not letting me post content because it isn't a good fit them (imagine Free Republic, who's banned me many years ago, letting me spread the good word of PJ Proudhon and other left market anarchists, or me forcing Rebel Media [a conservative website/outlet] to host a transgender vlog). Rather, it means we can self-sort into sites that fit our interests. Granny's knitting blog need not be bothered hosting posts about aquariums. Joe's betta fish web forum need not worry about hosting knitting content. And so on.

Third, no one is calling police on people being racists or fascists in general. This particular scenario is nonsense, so I'm going to just shrug and move on.

Fourth, many of those blocking tools you mention would be illegal under similarly proposed social media laws. All these current attempts to regulate popular websites are just another way to force users to consume content they would otherwise now (ex. trucks with pictures of aborted fetuses being driven around nominally pro-choice areas). The proponents of such regulations are against audiences self-sorting as they can't grow their support base. It's why so many other unrelated, but significant, laws are appearing such as laws forcing teachers to narc on LGBT students. It's meant to break down sites that have appeared to cater to such marginalized groups or are otherwise a big tent platform (inclusive to many but not for anti-social movements such as anti-LGBT). It's a multiprong approach to the demographic changes that has doomed reactionaries for the last three decades.

Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could say the same about any small town local government in the Bible Belt. Not to mention all of the people running for office who said the election was stolen or Florida that literally passed a law called “the Stop Woke Act” that forbids companies from teaching DI&E. Do you want the government to control the propaganda?

> We could say the same about any small town local government in the Bible Belt. This isn't remotely true. Your rural local government - a) generally has to serve the interests of its constituents, ie the fuckup mayor or do nothing member of the county commissioners board will eventually be called out, shamed in public, and lose reelection. b) unlike Disney, does not move in lock step chasing quarterly profit - which…

> generally has to serve the interests of its constituents, ie the fuckup mayor or do nothing member of the county commissioners board will eventually be called out, shamed in public, and lose reelection.

You mean the same local government where I grew up that within my still living parents lifetime enforced Jim Crow laws?

Or do you mean the local government where I live now that specifically said that “religious institutions” can be put up in residential areas but are twisting in all sorts of contortions trying to keep a Hindu temple out?

Or could it be the same state governments that are banning abortion left and right even though it goes against the wishes of their constituents?

Maybe it’s the same local government that condones police stopping minorities far more than non minorities because they “look suspicious”?

On the other hand the residence of Orange County Florida are definitely not in favor of Desantis forcing them (soon us) to take over control of Disney.

I know this not just because of what I heard on the news. Orange County will soon be our legal residence and where we spend the winter (the rest of the time traveling). I thought if nothing else, you could count on conservatives to be good for business and lower taxes. The stunt that the Florida governor did is good for nothing but his own ego.

Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So these same companies are complaining that it is harder to target people because Apple has instituted the ability for people to say no to targeting. Should the government come in there? Would Truth Social like the Biden administration coming in and telling them what they can post?

I don’t think that is a common carrier issue. I’m just saying the impact of bans from social media companies, often coordinated among several at once, are more impactful than other companies already listed as common carriers. It’s not like social media is created by these companies, every piece of content shown on the websites was user created and the users deserve protection from malicious and biased actors within t…

Do I also deserve “protection” when RedState has banned me twice for not carrying the party line? Do you think Truth Social would welcome my opinions with open arms?

Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at AWS in Professional Services where we are pushed to go after the other 95%. I watch the ReInvent videos. He is very much talking about growing by going after the other 95%. I know first hand how many large enterprises and state and local government institutions are self hosted. In context, he is obviously talking about AWS’s growth potential by going after a large untapped market. As far as “needing an app”…

>I work at AWS in Professional Services where we are pushed to go after the other 95%. It wasn't stated in the article that 95% of hosting is self hosted. I would appreciate some article or something that actually makes that claim. >I watch the ReInvent videos. He is very much talking about growing by going after the other 95%. I haven't watch those videos, but if it just reiterates the article then it won't prove yo…

Twitter and Facebook both have websites that are both easy to deal with on the phone.

Global IT spend is 4.5T.

https://www.serverfarmllc.com/blog/mind-blowing-worldwide-it...

AWS percentage of that spend is infinitesimal.

Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#529
post #341
post #237

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> if you complain about this loudly enough well, maybe you have an unlucky "accident" Lynchings are never this circumspect.

In retrospect, no. But reality was never so clear cut, especially contemporaneously. Lynchings of whites wasn't uncommon. The so-called "last lynching in California" was of two white murder suspects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooke_Hart#Lynching_of_Thurmo... The application of lynchings were, however, disproportionate, and this must have at least been apparent to anyone who cared to consider the question. Accord…

This sounds a LOT like “there’s always been slavery throughout human history - I’m not denying the transatlantic slave trade was brutal. But we need to put it into context [insert Wikipedia article talking about the history of slavery]”. You can’t “both sides” this with Wikipedia links or arguing you’re speaking from a logical / non-personal perspective.

Re: Florida to Supreme Court: Let us regulate social networks as common carriers

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My family and I went to see bears at Yosemite. It was so exciting! Can you point to Yosemite on a map?"

Just because a thing can be expressed in different words does not mean everyone always has the awareness to choose words that are politically desirable at every single point of their lives - especially when you are trying to teach children to use precise language (family implies a group of more than two people), and when identical similar language is perfectly ok if you have the right set of genitalia. I am not argui…

I just don’t see how a teacher mentioning a same sex spouse is obviously violating the law in the way you’re worried about.
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