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Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#251

Post by tom-thistime »

jtbayly wrote: post #103
FreeHugs wrote: post #5

Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. Meta has control over the app Sue uses. So they could send them to Meta unencrypted in addition to sending them to Joe in an encrypted fashion. Or they just extract the relevant terms: Sue->Joe: "Hello Joe, I'm so excited! We are going to have a baby! Let's call it Dingbert. You're not the father! Ji…

> Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. No, that's precisely what End-to-End encryption means.

Oh, come on. It's called "end to end" but it isn't. Meta has to read them to provide the service. This is not a new revelation.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#252

Post by chillacy »

dan-robertson wrote: post #146

I think you partly may just be biased by happening to notice ads more if they fit the topic you sent to your wife or being lenient in deciding if ads meet the categorization. And if you dwell on an ad because it seems to match, you may get more similar ads. Here is how I think you could design a more robust (but less fun) experiment: - Come up with a bunch of topics, write them down on slips of paper, put the paper i…

You can’t come up with the topics yourself either, because the topics you will think up are different based on your demographic / type of person you are, and ad networks basically try to guess that.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#253

Post by Hamuko »

netsectoday wrote: post #245
procinct wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? Also, this feels like it would be insanely easy to test by capturing the payloads sent to FB; you could even use something like Charles Proxy to do it. FB having access to microphone makes sense for plenty of other completely innocent reasons (for example, if you can record a video from inside the app). If this was actually true, I can’t help but feel that som…

> Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? No. Just tested this out, zero indication that the mic is hot on a recent iPhone with up-to-date software when recording a voice memo. Edit: There ya go... downvotes for saying the iPhone has no indicator when you record audio.

Works on my iPhone.

https://litter.catbox.moe/cpvpr8.jpg

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#254

Post by tom-thistime »

Swizec wrote: post #152
snowmizuh-04 wrote: post #144

The scarier thing to me is when ads match _conversations_ I have with my wife. I told her about this story this morning, and she reminded me about a conversation about stem cell research we had yesterday. I said something along the lines of 'I hope there is a breakthrough soon on regenerating the Isle of Langerhans in the pancreas to treat diabetes.' Sure enough, she noticed an article in her Google News feed later t…

As creepy as this is whenever it happens, I remain convinced it’s observation bias. Because of how often it doesn’t happen. Quoth Richard Feynman: > “You know, the most amazing thing happened to me tonight... I saw a car with the license plate ARW 357. Can you imagine? Of all the millions of license plates in the state, what was the chance that I would see that particular one tonight? Amazing!” You were gonna see ads…

I'm sorry, but the Feynman reference may be a little misleading. With respect, it is difficult to imagine Richard Feynman putting "I sent the information to the recipient via the internet, but I hope they didn't read it" in the same category as "no way they could know; must be telepathy."

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#255

Post by tom-thistime »

itslennysfault wrote: post #242

The app that you type your message into is controlled by Meta. They can do whatever they want with what you type and THEN encrypt the message and send it to the other person.

OMG, no, it's "END TO END." That means WHATEVER I NEED IT TO MEAN. Even if the provider promised they ARE using my messages to target ads, THAT NEEDS TO NOT BE HAPPENING.

Irony notice. This message contains irony.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#256

Post by xerxesaa »

As someone who has actually worked on end to end encryption at Meta, I can tell you I am not aware of anything where the company reads your WhatsApp messages - either in transit or device. The company takes fairly serious measures to ensure it cannot even accidentally infer such contents.

I don't know what is happening in this specific case. Perhaps the ads came from some other similar search queries. Perhaps they came from the keyboard intercepting what was typed. Or perhaps something else that I can't think of. But I'm nearly certain it did not come from meta intercepting the contents of your messages.

It's hard to convince people at this point because many have lost trust in Meta as a company, and I understand that. But I still find it stunning that so many people are making so many false claims without any actual knowledge to back it up.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#257

Post by vzaliva »

Let me share a plausible scenario which may be a bit on conspiracy theory side :) Yes, WhatsApp uses secure protocol which prevents anyone, even WhatsApp servers from reading your messages. However WhastApp mobile app, developed by Facebook can see all your unencrypted text while it is typed or shown on the screen. So the ad targeting may be happening then.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#258

Post by titaniczero »

netsectoday wrote: post #247
titaniczero wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And don’t forget the battery. A mic recording 24/7 would drain the battery much faster and would not go unnoticed unless specialized hardware is used like the one for “hey siri” and “ok google”.

Doesn't the Facebook app drain your battery?

Try any voice recording app for a few hours, now use the facebook app for the same number of hours. The impact on battery life of a mic actively recording alone is very noticeable, so noticeable that your phone has a special chip just to recognize patterns similar to “hey siri”.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#259

Post by Firmwarrior »

rakoo wrote: post #216
dan-robertson wrote: post #146

I think you partly may just be biased by happening to notice ads more if they fit the topic you sent to your wife or being lenient in deciding if ads meet the categorization. And if you dwell on an ad because it seems to match, you may get more similar ads. Here is how I think you could design a more robust (but less fun) experiment: - Come up with a bunch of topics, write them down on slips of paper, put the paper i…

A simpler protocol to realize that the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon is probably what's happening: - pick said topic, something you never cared about before, talk about it but don't write any messages containing it; - for 1 month record every ad you see about it; - send a message about the topic; - for another month, record every ad you see about it Comparing the number of occurrences will tell you what is happening.

You're saying to record ads you see about it on TV or something? (Just to eliminate the "My computer is secretly recording me" angle)

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#260

Post by tom-thistime »

lizardactivist wrote: post #115

Sure, it's end-to-end encrypted, but it means nothing when Signal, Meta, Apple, Google etc. are conveniently keeping a copy of the encryption key.

They probably have the key, but decrypting takes server time and why bother? They are the ones who encrypt it and decrypt it. Just scan the plain text. Which they must do in order to encrypt the message.
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