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Chainalysis: A startup that helps governments trace crypto

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Re: Chainalysis: A startup that helps governments trace crypto

#81

Post by SkyMarshal »

cowtools wrote: post #55
SkyMarshal wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t recall why that decision was made, but there could be a couple reasons. First, it isn’t easy technically. Especially back when you’re designing the very first decentralized cryptocurrency and have no prior experience informing your design. ZCash, Monero, MimbleWimble and others came later after learning from Bitcoin, and there’s zero chance they could have come first. Second, shielded transactions risk undete…

Let's not speculate: https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/quotes/privacy/ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770 It seems like satoshi thought pseudo-anonyminity was sufficient. The integration of zero-knowlege proofs into cryptocurrencies was not really well understood at the time.

Thanks, I knew there were discussions of it back then on bitcointalk and probably bitcoin wizards irc, just not where to find them. The bitcointalk thread seems to confirm #1 - it was just technically difficult to do back then.

Re: Chainalysis: A startup that helps governments trace crypto

#82

Post by tromp »

beauHD wrote: post #69
houstonn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satoshi's largest error was not making Bitcoin private by default and it strikes me as out of character given his/her level of commitment to being anonymous.

So is it safe to say Monero is a sort of Bitcoin 2.0? I mean if Bitcoin had 'versions' that would be great. Then we wouldn't have to invent entirely new cryptocurrencies, we could just iterate on existing ones, and have our userbase intact without having to 'gain traction' for an entirely new alt-coin.

No; Monero is not an improved Bitcoin; it just makes different tradeoffs [1].

[1] https://phyro.github.io/grinvestigation/why_grin.html

Re: Chainalysis: A startup that helps governments trace crypto

#83

Post by TimJRobinson »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #18

As far as I know, the state of crypto privacy is that everything is directly traceable except: * Bitcoin lightning transactions when the lightning nodes involved are trusted to not keep logs * Transactions through mixers with a lot of users * Monero transactions * Zcash private transactions And everything is de-facto traceable except: * Tornado cash users who use standard-size amounts (or users of another equivalentl…

aztec.network is a L2 for Ethereum that is private while still allowing interactions with (some) smart contracts on L1. It batches requests to them.

Similar tech to this could become standard on Ethereum L2s in the future after more optimisations.

I'm pretty sure withdraws from Ren darknodes are private as they come from the network itself and aren't correlates to your node.

Re: Chainalysis: A startup that helps governments trace crypto

#84

Post by TimJRobinson »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #44
jcbrand wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transactions are moving to layer 2 solutions like the lightning network. Individual lightning transactions are not recorded on the blockchain and are not subject to chain analysis.

What prevents lightning network operators from making transactions records and details available --- for fun and/or profit? Better yet, what prevents a lightning network operator from going rogue and draining your account to fund his retirement and then moving to Tonga? Imagine the outcry if government suddenly announced that all your fiat bank transactions will be routed through small, unregulated 3rd party operator…

What are you talking about? The lightning network is permissionless, you open channels with other nodes and then you can send funds across them, the other nodes can't take your funds.

Unless you mean signing up with strike or some centralized service in which case the old adage "not your keys not your coins" applies.

Re: Chainalysis: A startup that helps governments trace crypto

#85

Post by [deleted] »

zeroclip wrote: post #64
pjc50 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More users would use Tornado Cash if regulation was clear and allowed it This is simply not going to happen in the current anti-money-laundering environment. The US made Switzerland give up hiding money, they're not going to let some random geeks make trillions of dollars vanish.

The blockchain does pose new questions about digital privacy rights. Cryptography that privatizes transactional flow of USDC tokens is indistinguishable from the same cryptography that privatizes transactional flow of digital assets. Want to purchase an ENS name without corporations and the US government having clear knowledge of it? Too bad, the US government will not allow that. The privacy that we enjoy wish cash…

[deleted]

Re: Chainalysis: A startup that helps governments trace crypto

#87

Post by Stamp01 »

wikitopian wrote: post #86

I hope the feds hunt down and arrest everybody who used multiple slurp juices on a single ape. There's XMR, some interesting little projects like DERO, and a vast sea of tokenomic pyramid scheme garbage that governments can and should stop.

> I hope the feds hunt down and arrest everybody who used multiple slurp juices on a single ape.

Can I get this on a t-shirt? I have no idea what it means, but it sounds amazing.

Re: Chainalysis: A startup that helps governments trace crypto

#88

Post by edgyquant »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #62
pjc50 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More users would use Tornado Cash if regulation was clear and allowed it This is simply not going to happen in the current anti-money-laundering environment. The US made Switzerland give up hiding money, they're not going to let some random geeks make trillions of dollars vanish.

>they're not going to let some random geeks make trillions of dollars vanish. i've heard this sentiment conveyed in the crypto space since 2011... still waiting on this prophecy to come true. Due to incompetence, profit motive or traitors to their country, who can tell the difference? (Paraphrasing Robespierre here)

In what way has this not come true? It isn’t random geeks getting rich off of crypto anymore it’s institutions

Re: Chainalysis: A startup that helps governments trace crypto

#89

Post by olalonde »

MerelyMortal wrote: post #70
olalonde wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I missing anything? Bitcoin transactions that use CoinJoin (e.g. Wasabi Wallet). https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/wiki/CoinJoin

It's been a couple of years, but I thought Chainalysis said they could break CoinJoin.

A 2020 Europol (European Cybercrime Center) report seemed to think it was effective[0]:

> is a very effective decentralised Bitcoin mixer with many privacy-focused options

> provides possibly the most convenient and secure way to mix Bitcoins

[0] https://www.tbstat.com/wp/uploads/2020/06/Europol-Wasabi-Wal...

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