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Meta and Google are cutting staff

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351–360 of 408 posts

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#351
post #203

Facebook and google have "required some employees to apply for new jobs if they wish to remain at the company." I have to say this is a sort of hilarious newspeak framing of layoffs. "We're not laying you off, you just need to apply and get accepted for a job or else you're terminated." OK, so I was a job-haver, now I'm a job-seeker... but at least I haven't been laid off!

Haha, even a cynic like myself couldn't see this coming. It's a fantastic way to shift focus away from leadership decision making towards competition between the very employees who are supposed to work together. I suspect there will be a lot more politicking than the usual hiring process (which is quite objective, despite its other flaws).

Google has a massive number of teams, many of which are actively hiring. This is not some musical chairs exercise and it’s only getting attention because it fits the storyline journalists want to tell right now. This has been going on throughout the last decade and before.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, I'm not joking. Google has bidets.

I don't honestly know why all of America doesn't have them, and my suspicions are it has something to do with timber shareholders.

No, it's cultural; Americans just can't imagine not using dry paper to smear feces around after they use the toilet, instead of using water to properly clean themselves. I tried talking to people I knew about them during the pandemic when everyone was freaking out about toilet paper shortages, but it went nowhere.

I also suspect NIH is a big part of the problem. Bidets and washlets weren't invented in America or adopted there first, so Americans can't adopt them now since that would be admitting they weren't first for something. Americans are, as a whole, completely unable to look at what other countries are doing and learn from their example.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cohorts at Meta are not fixed size (at least not at the team level). You do get to see the average size of cohorts, and you will need to explain why your team doesn’t meet them - for example if the entire team project is going exceedingly well, or the team is really made out if a lot of extraordinarily talented people - then you can argue why you have more than the average rate of excellent rankings.

Hum... To me that sounds like the cohorts have fixed sizes, but the top management will break the rules for their friends. Anyway, even if it honestly for "extraordinarily talented" people, that's still stupid stack-ranking.

Then you misunderstood.

The same you’d rank a person’s work, you would rank a team or org’s work.

If that team is doing really well, it’s likely they will have a distribution of higher rankings than the average. If they’re doing really bad, it can be the opposite.

The point is that if you finished ranking some team and your rankings are higher than average, you need to have a reason why.

What makes a ranking into a stack ranking?

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, I'm not joking. Google has bidets.

I don't honestly know why all of America doesn't have them, and my suspicions are it has something to do with timber shareholders.

It's actually rooted in America's puritanical roots. Americans were largely introduced to bidets during WWII in French bordellos. It didn't leave a good reputation coming back.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/03/the-b...

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#355

The article highlights that the easiest way for these companies to let go of staff right now is to dissolve entire teams. I've heard from friends that work at these companies that recent hiring freezes have actually made managers more hesitant to fire low performers because anyone they fire can't be replaced and they'd rather have a low performer than no one at all. The team dissolving process seems to sidestep this…

Low performer here. This is absolutely true. I cannot figure out how I was not let go even a year ago so asked the Director about it in 1:1 and she flat out said they can’t hire so it doesn’t matter.

https://dilbert.com/strip/2012-06-03

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I mean the businesses overall are very strong. That said, as a shareholder, watching Google and FB's headcount soar over the last 5-10 years to stratospheric numbers, they have to have a point where they sit down and take a hard look at what everyone is doing and be realistic about whether the projects make sense. I am all about R&D and experimentation and moonshots and the like, but the sheer number of bodi…

> That said, as a shareholder, watching Google and FB's headcount soar over the last 5-10 years to stratospheric numbers, they have to have a point where they sit down and take a hard look at what everyone is doing and be realistic about whether the projects make sense. As an employee, shareholders have to remember that sometimes stock prices go down, instead of hoping for cost cutting via layoffs. Shareholders have…

Agreed - stock price is irrelevant for the most part - it's the actual business and cash flows that are suffering and I think it's long past time there was some correction in the number of projects and people working on them.

Check my post history and you will see I wholly agree that stock price is an irrelevant metric.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#357
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that. Not only is it graded on a curve but to prevent ratings inflation there are quotas for each ratings bucket. Many deny this, even when presented with concrete proof that such quotas exist (but were called "performance targets"). This itself would be fine except that negative ratings have a target percentage of ~10%. This includes regrettable losses and ratings below Meets All Expectations. Such t…

Here’s what I’ve observed as a senior manager: First, it’s important to understand that managers are held to outcomes. If a manager retains low performers because “they’re friends”, over time they’ll find themselves with a low performing team and it will be visible in their results. At that stage they are now at the bottom of their manager’s stack-ranking process. Retain and promote your low-performing friends at you…

> First, it’s important to understand that managers are held to outcomes.

Respectfully, I disagree.

First, let me point out that when I say "popularity" I don't mean friends necessarily in the nepotism sense (in response to your later point). "Popularity" is a reductive term but still a relatively accurate one. What's really going on here is the intangible factors lead other around you to interpret the same set of facts charitably or not almost arbitrarily.

A big factor here is similarity in terms of demographic factors and background. This so often gets wrapped up "culture fit", which itself can be a euphemism for more problematic biases.

The example I like to give is this: a person may work on a project for a half that never ships. It may not even produce an MVP. Given this set of facts you will people who will say "we learned a lot and will take those learnings into future projects" all the way to "this team failed to deliver a prototype and as such we canned the project".

What's driving this are social factors.

Managers are subject to the same social forces that drive this interpretation. A given manager may get credit for dealing with reports that aren't necessarily bad enough to be exited but would otherwise be a headache for someone else in the org. Or that manager may be blamed for their team being perceived as low-performing even though they're given projects doomed to fail (eg under-resourced).

It's also worth noting that with any form of stack ranking or performance quotas, another factor that comes into play is horse-trading. That is, different managers are competing for a limited pool of ratings. You will find that a manager has decided someone should be promoted and that report will find themselves high on stack ranking as a result. There's an implicit quid pro quo here because other managers can get your support (as a manager) when one of their reports gets put up for promotion.

> Of course, if you believe your entire management chain to be incompetent

It's not competence. It's biases masquerading as objective determinations and an implicit over-reliance on social cues and factors all while managers have incentives that may come at the expense of those of their reports.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a place you'd go if you were using work to distract you from a problem in your personal life.

Or distract that you're writing code for a platform that harms people

Or distract that you're writing code for a product that is lame and writing is already on the wall that it won't succeed.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#359
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm constantly amazed at how stupid supposed smart people can be when it comes to applying metrics to an organization made up of humans. Intelligence isn't a spectrum, it's an infinite-dimensional space. Someone can be smart on one axis and a dunce on infinity-minus-one other axes. Every genius ever born was almost certainly mediocre at nearly everything outside their expertise.

While there are different dimensions to intelligence, they tend to all be correlated to each other. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics)

"all" is an extraordinary claim.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Meta managers can't really get away with hiding low performers. Your performance review isn't finalized by your manager, but rather the manager submits your review to a calibrating board that tries to ensure fairness and maintain quality standards. They will refute at all cost that this is stack ranking but you are absolutely graded on the curve of the other engineers in your department and level.

I used to work at a Fortune 50 company and found stack ranking...kinda fair. I used to be a high performer, made real ROI impacts, helped others and had a strong sense of initiative. I'd come out with a better raise, stock options and had opportunities to take on more responsibility. It was more honest and straightforward than what silicon valley and Big Tech pretends to do. It is all ranking in some ways. Everything…

I dunno, I don't think it's helpful to identify your worst performers (or label them as "bottom 15%") unless they aren't meeting the needs of the position and need to be let go. Someone has to be the worst, and it's really not okay to arbitrarily make 15% of people's lives hell. Again, if they need to go, they need to go, but I really fucking doubt at any given time 15% of an organization is actually bad enough to warrant firing or a PEP or any action at all.
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