There are new programs being written daily in COBOL and Fortran, and I'm fairly certain that I see new PL/I floating around occasionally. C and C++ aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Love them, hate them, want to burn them with fire, they're here for a long, long time. Leaving that aside, I was still hitting Rust "oh look the developer of this crate on which the entire universe depends still assumes that everything…
> Rusties please don't
It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
901–910 of 929 posts
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#902Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stuff like Slotmap should be part of the standard library instead of some github project with open issues that isn't updated for over a year.
Hey, slotmap author here. Last year has been a bit rough and I didn't have a whole lot of free time and energy to work on projects at the same time. That said, I don't believe any of the open issues on slotmap are of immediate need of attention, they are mostly minor feature requests/incremental improvements. I do have a slotmap 2.0 in the planning that will include most of these improvements and allow further custom…
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#903Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just about jailbreaking or rooting. A lot of other user-hostilities can be defeated because something isn't quite as secure as it could be, and from that perspective, making things "more secure" is active hostility. "We are not truly free if we do not have the freedom to make mistakes." I guarantee that man will always be able to break what man can make Not with the rise of strong crypto. Java isn't used for…
> "We are not truly free if we do not have the freedom to make mistakes." We don't build bridges that fall down and declare that we've done it out of the need to preserve freedom to experience gravity. Software engineering is an engineering profession and building reliable software that works as intended is the goal. It's never been the goal to build breakable software... It's been a side effect of decades of enginee…
There needs to be a balance. Any extreme is dystopia. I'm just pushing back because I want to restore that balance.
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#904Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're not trying to burn the frog but boil it slowly. This is just another one of a series of small steps.
its absurd, and you're slandering a bunch of free software devs who care quite deeply about security and user safety, in service of a total conspiracy theory that quite frankly comes across as trolling. Good luck with that. If by chance you are in fact sincere I have no idea what even to tell you, its just a batshit crazy notion. But odds are strong that you know exactly what you're doing, so, keep at it I guess, wha…
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#905Earlier quoted context omitted.
its absurd, and you're slandering a bunch of free software devs who care quite deeply about security and user safety, in service of a total conspiracy theory that quite frankly comes across as trolling. Good luck with that. If by chance you are in fact sincere I have no idea what even to tell you, its just a batshit crazy notion. But odds are strong that you know exactly what you're doing, so, keep at it I guess, wha…
People thought Stallman was a crazy conspiracy theorist back then. Now you'd have to be quite strongly brainwashed to not see how prescient he was.
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#906Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "We are not truly free if we do not have the freedom to make mistakes." We don't build bridges that fall down and declare that we've done it out of the need to preserve freedom to experience gravity. Software engineering is an engineering profession and building reliable software that works as intended is the goal. It's never been the goal to build breakable software... It's been a side effect of decades of enginee…
I once thought like that. That was before I realised that corporate interests and those of the user increasingly don't align, and that any strength on their side equates to strength against you. There needs to be a balance. Any extreme is dystopia. I'm just pushing back because I want to restore that balance.
Hackers are a non-protected minority. And they're generally smart enough to think their way out of the world being made harder to hack. For the rest of us, most changes making the world harder to hack are improvements. That's one of the reasons the marketplace keeps rewarding such changes.
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#907Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did rust have a GC at some point pre-1.0? Interesting. Not sure how limiting the discussion of a language to just the features included in the 3rd standard and forward makes sense. Particularly when the old stuff is still present and valid in the later standards. Just because you want to use some convention curtain off some area of the language doesn't mean it's not there.
https://pcwalton.github.io/_posts/2013-06-02-removing-garbag... This came 2 years after C++11 was finalized, which introduced RAII memory management, threads, range loops and much more, and is the basis for modern C++. Of course, there are pros and cons to keeping backwards compatibility with old code. Personally I think it's an amazing technical achievement that the same code written in 1987 still works. Particularl…
Look into rust's editions. Short version: any compilation unit[1] can declare which edition it is written for. The code in that unit must be valid under the rules of the edition, but different units with different editions can be compiled into a larger program.
https://doc.rust-lang.org/edition-guide/editions/index.html
[1] the compilation unit in rust is a crate. That doesn't mean it has to be put into crates.io, just that it has to be cordoned with its own Cargo.toml and any non-public structs/functions/etc will not be accessible from outside the crate.
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#908I think this is a silly idea. There are still loads of questions surrounding Rust. Especially about it's practicality... There are articles denigrating the likes of the trait and async systems on HN almost every day. And even ignoring that argument, any language is viable, so long as it can be used to build what you want to build.
I think you're forgetting the security issues surrounding C. Also, I could build a lot of stuff in PHP. But in 2022, is that wise?
It's fitting that you mention PHP, because while the ecosystem isn't quite the same, for all it's problems (especially security), WordPress is still viable for a bunch new projects, and things may remain that way for many years to come.
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#909Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#910Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Programmers currently using Rust are superior to programmers using C++ > People learn C++ in college. People learn Rust because they love their craft Wow... and rust programmers wonder why rust has a stigma? So I guess John Carmack is inferior and is not an ultimate craftsman.
I think I hit a nerve with this one. If you put out a job ad for any mainstream language (Java, JavaScript, C++, among others) you're inundated by applicants who have no business even working in this industry. If you put an esoteric language like Elixir or Rust, you get a smaller but much higher quality pool of applicants. That's my personal experience, I don't have hard data to back it up. Paul Graham once wrote abo…