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The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

frame.work

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Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#281
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on a $150 Chromebook from Costco right now because it has a really nice display for text, it gets 8 hours of battery life at full brightness, and there's nothing I do that I can't do on another computer, somewhere else. And somehow, this thing got my attention. I don't have any interest in their traditional PC laptop line, but I've been waffling over buying a Pixelbook for years because dealing with Google Suppor…

> there's nothing I do that I can't do on another computer, somewhere else. Is that a misplaced "can't"? (Something like "there's nothing I can't do that I can do on another computer, somewhere else"?)

Maybe they mean "there's nothing I can't do by sshing to another computer when necessary"?

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#282
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How will the switch protect me if I'm in a video call with my SO? The switch exists for when you are NOT on a video call. It completely cuts the video feed going into the OS on the hardware level. How is that so hard to understand for people here?

It's not hard for anyone to understand. If you're worried that the OS is hijacking your camera, why would you stop being worried just because you're using the camera.

Because when I'm using my camera I make sure not to do things like walk naked in front of it forgetting that there's a camera there? For other people the thing they don't do while on a video call might be having an affair, or using drugs, or...

Your argument seems similar to "why would you care about a microphone spying on you 24/7 if you're willing to sometimes have conversations that might be overheard?"

Yes obviously when you use your webcam you're aware that it's not impossible you're being spied on, and some people may choose to never have a webcam for that reason. For those of us who are happy to take that risk for video calls, we don't have to also accept that we can be spied on any time the laptop is open.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#283
post #49

I’m reminded of this line in Bruce Almighty: “All this horsepower and no room to gallup” Is there really a market for a $999 Chromebook? Didn’t google try this several years ago and flop?

This class of comment is pretty tired. Google Pixelbook did not "flop" it proved the viability of the $1000+ Chromebook market for serious users. There are Chromebooks on the market at all price points. You can build-to-order a HP Elite Dragonfly with a state-of-the-art CPU, 32GB of RAM, and 512GB of flash for $3200 and these are back-ordered to March 2023 so clearly the customers exist.

> these are back-ordered to March 2023 so clearly the customers exist.

Worth remembering that "stock issues" / wait times etc. are as dependant on the production plans of the product as they are on demand. It can be a sign of lots or customers, or just that hardly any demand was expected and so even a tiny amount more takes a while to catch up on (especially if e.g. there are high-demand components that they'd rather put in products with a high profit margin), or... etc

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#284
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the question is, why ChromeOS instead of a Linux?

Biased opinion: I work on ChromeOS at Google Biased but informed opinion: I own a Framework Laptop running Ubuntu 22.04. Linux on a server or a desktop isn't so bad. Linux on a laptop is awful. Hibernation isn't supported. Battery life is mediocre, and battery drain in sleep is significant. If I close the lid on my Framework at 75% and come back the next day, it will be at 25%. If I come back in 3 days, it will be co…

Adding TLP (https://linrunner.de/tlp/index.html) significantly improved sleep battery drain on my Manjaro based Framework laptop.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of security models that rely on RAM being more difficult for an attacker to access than disk (as you can imagine it is much easier to ensure things stored to disk are resistant to compromise than to ensure that nothing in working memory is usable by an attacker). Swap is that in between case where storage is memory, so that creates a unique challenge. What you want is that if someone steals your hiberna…

I think you may have missed what was being asked? I think they assume that an LVM PV is encrypted and could contain the block filesystem and swap volumes as LVs. There is already a boot-time process to unlock such an LVM setup. Why should the swap require a separate encryption key? As a Fedora user, this is how my disks have been setup for many years, and I don't understand why Fedora have disabled hibernation. Durin…

> I think they assume that an LVM PV is encrypted and could contain the block filesystem and swap volumes as LVs. There is already a boot-time process to unlock such an LVM setup. Why should the swap require a separate encryption key?

Again, the reason why it's different is the security model for memory is different from the filesystem. This is exactly what I was getting at: the fixed key. Encrypted swap volumes typically are set up to use ephemeral keys that are "forgotten" when you power down. The idea is that you only have access to that memory while the computer is running. When you boot up again, whatever data is in the swap partition is just noise. As mentioned in the link I provided (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnableHibernateWithEncrypt...), the current solution is to switch to using a fixed key, much as you described. That fundamentally changes the security model, and not in a subtle way.

I think there's a solution that more closely approximates the security model, with only a minor compromise: when you boot up, you generate an ephemeral key in the secure enclave, and use that to encrypt your swap. When you hibernate, the secure enclave encrypts all the metadata (including the ephemeral key) into a sealed state that is stored on disk with the swap information. When you restore, the sealed data is read back into the secure enclave (and erased) and it can then decrypt swap as needed. This still means the hibernated memory state is fully recoverable by whomever is able to authenticate with the enclave, but that's what everyone wants. On the upside, if you shut down the machine (rather than hibernate), the ephemeral key is lost, so there's no way anyone can recover what's on your swap, even if they have access to whatever fixed key(s) you have used for your LVM volumes.

If you're really paranoid, you could even generate a new ephemeral key on restore and reencrypt the entire swap volume with the new ephemeral key, though I'd question what realistic threat model that would really address.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#286
post #257

The words chromebook and privacy in the same marketing material for a product that clearly targets power users is an audacious choice

I hate "performance" Chromebooks but I very much appreciate giving end users the choice to get their weird Google OS if they want it. More consumer choice at no cost in other features is only a good thing.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#287
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's product marketing is the absolute worst As long as ‘killed by Google’ continues to be a well-known meme, they could have the best marketing department in the universe and it wouldn’t make a lick of difference..

That's pretty silly. I know you're exaggerating a bit, but marketing is in the business of public perception. If google took steps to reverse the trend, and the marketing department could highlight that, that would kill the meme.

Hence

> As long as ‘killed by Google’ continues to be a well-known meme

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#288
I use a Chromebook for development as well. It's $100 computer and it is just fantastic. I throw it around with such peace of mind, and the battery life is just incredible!

It has only one issue for me, it does not have enough power to run MS Teams on the brownser, and the Android app does not work well.

A native app from MS would be quite nice :)

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#289
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's nothing I do that I can't do on another computer, somewhere else. Is that a misplaced "can't"? (Something like "there's nothing I can't do that I can do on another computer, somewhere else"?)

Maybe they mean "there's nothing I can't do by sshing to another computer when necessary"?

Bingo. This is a dumb terminal that does some wifi calling, thanks to Google Fi.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

System76 seems to have finally gotten to the bottom of the battery issues with their Lemur Pro. It's all about the drivers, and getting drivers that do power management right for devices that are miserly is surprisingly difficult.

Can you confirm this for your own device? I am really waiting for a linux laptop, which is truly mobile. I also rather went with chromebooks so far.

Note personally (all my laptops are provided by work, and they don't do System76 :-(), but you don't have to look far to see people talking about the battery life: https://www.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/n235vc/a_lemur_pr...
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