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The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

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Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#261

Post by nrp »

treffer wrote: post #169
nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

I have a 11th gen frame.work. 1. Could I swap mainboards to upgrade the 11th gen framework to the chromebook version? 2. Is the coreboot chip flashable with custom firmware? / Is the boot process locked? This might well be the mainboard I've been waiting for. Congratulations on shipping this!

I noted this in another comment, but that mainboard swap should work. You'll likely need a Chromebook-specific Input Cover and Webcam for full functionality though, and this is an upgrade path we have done limited validation effort on thus far.

When switched into developer mode, it should be possible to update and customize firmware. There is a pretty active community for Chromebook firmware customization out there.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#262

Post by nrp »

fulafel wrote: post #248
nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

Are other language kb variants planned?

We have "Register your interest" set up for other countries currently. Depending on how much interest there is, this is something we will consider as we go forward.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#263

Post by nrp »

Halan wrote: post #257

The words chromebook and privacy in the same marketing material for a product that clearly targets power users is an audacious choice

It is indeed. The intent of that is to communicate that no matter what the OS is doing, the privacy switches for the camera and microphone are yours to control. The switches function at hardware level with no possibility of software override.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#264

Post by mohaine »

treffer wrote: post #169
nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

I have a 11th gen frame.work. 1. Could I swap mainboards to upgrade the 11th gen framework to the chromebook version? 2. Is the coreboot chip flashable with custom firmware? / Is the boot process locked? This might well be the mainboard I've been waiting for. Congratulations on shipping this!

I'm in the same place. I would love to upgrade mine to chrome os just for the battery life.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#265

Post by nrp »

staticassertion wrote: post #180

So do I have to add more RAM to this later? I can't just buy it with the max'd out RAM?

To keep inventory streamlined for this product, we only have a single configuration of the product. It is super easy to open up and add more memory to though. We include a screwdriver in the box and encourage you to explore the inside.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#266

Post by teawrecks »

dubcanada wrote: post #127
teawrecks wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though in theory, upgrading/repairing these over time would be cheaper than spending $400 every few years or each time a kid breaks one.

I don't think that math adds up correct, $400 is over half the cost. If they last 2-3 years and a framework lasts 5-6 years before needing repair, it's at about break even (assuming we need to buy a brand new $400 laptop every 2-3 years). Buying parts for a Framework will cost more than parts for a $400 laptop of which there are thousands on ebay of every single part. For example let's assume the screen is broken and…

Note: I started my comment with "in theory".

I would be disappointed in framework if they locked out 3rd parties from selling replacement parts. That's the whole point of right to repair.

My hope is that if people rally behind a platform like this, it will drive the price down too.

There's also the fact that we currently aren't pricing in the cost of e-waste, much like how gas in the US doesn't currently price in the cost of climate change related damages. It could be that those $400 laptops are artificially cheap for now, but once you start charging companies for planned obsolescence, it doesn't make financial sense anymore.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#267

Post by outworlder »

Arainach wrote: post #206
duped wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the question is, why ChromeOS instead of a Linux?

Biased opinion: I work on ChromeOS at Google Biased but informed opinion: I own a Framework Laptop running Ubuntu 22.04. Linux on a server or a desktop isn't so bad. Linux on a laptop is awful. Hibernation isn't supported. Battery life is mediocre, and battery drain in sleep is significant. If I close the lid on my Framework at 75% and come back the next day, it will be at 25%. If I come back in 3 days, it will be co…

> Linux on a laptop is awful.

YMMV

Sounds like something that Framework should fix. There's nothing wrong with the Linux kernel per-se.

I have an older Dell Chromebook (turned into a Linux machine once Google stopped OS updates). Battery drain during sleep is pretty significant with either ChromeOS or Linux.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#268

Post by adamdusty »

paxys wrote: post #255
amelius wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will the switch protect me if I'm in a video call with my SO? I can trust a Linux system. A system running Google adware (some even call it spyware), not so much.

> How will the switch protect me if I'm in a video call with my SO? The switch exists for when you are NOT on a video call. It completely cuts the video feed going into the OS on the hardware level. How is that so hard to understand for people here?

It's not hard for anyone to understand. If you're worried that the OS is hijacking your camera, why would you stop being worried just because you're using the camera.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#269

Post by cbsmith »

nrp wrote: post #260
cbsmith wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm comparing this with the 12-gen DIY offerings, and it seems like it's mostly the low-end configuration of the DIY with ChromeOS installed. The FAQ says there are some subtle differences like louder speakers and a "more power optimized battery". Can you clarify what "more power optimized" means (a rather vague statement as the specs page suggests the same capacity and durability)? I noticed the 256GB of storage is…

The power optimizations are in the Mainboard electrical design, firmware, and OS, and improve both standby and in-use efficiency. The battery itself is identical to the one in other Framework Laptops. On the storage, we use Western Digital SN730 and SN740 drives, which are also what we put in the pre-built Framework Laptops. These are roughly equivalent to the SN750 and SN770 retail drives, respectively. On the memor…

> The power optimizations are in the Mainboard electrical design, firmware, and OS, and improve both standby and in-use efficiency.

It'd be nice to see improvements in the mainboard of the standard laptops as well. I imagine, in theory, much of the firmware and OS improvements could be installed on one of them already.

> On the storage, we use Western Digital SN730 and SN740 drives, which are also what we put in the pre-built Framework Laptops.

Ah, now I see it. The pre-built one has 256GB & 512GB options that the DIY ones don't have. I'm always amused by how specs differ between OEM and non-OEM parts.

> On the memory and storage, ChromeOS technically has an allow-list for memory and storage, though in practice we have seen modules not on the list work fine. We'll be adding that list onto the Knowledge Base. We will be making parts that are on the list available in the Framework Marketplace for guaranteed compatibility (the memory we already have, and we'll be introducing SN730/SN740 storage up to 1TB).

Awesome. Thanks. These were really helpful answers. As feedback, I'd say it would be nice to be able to select different starting memory options in particular, but this is a really great offering.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#270

Post by outworlder »

Arainach wrote: post #244
xorcist wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even on a device designed to support Linux (Framework, Thinkpad, whatever) There's apparently a world of difference. Nothing about the Framework suggests it was designed for Linux. A proper Thinkpad does not have issues with hibernation, or losing battery, or graphics, or any of the other things you mentioned. I just want something that works, and will receive updates as long as there are users. I don't want to muc…

I'm glad you've had that experience, but it hasn't been mine. I've owned other laptops running Linux and have had plenty of coworkers with experiences as well. Heck, there's an entire team at Google dedicated (full of incredibly smart people who know way more about Linux than I ever will) to trying to get Linux running well on laptops. Plenty of people shared their experiences in this thread: https://news.ycombinator…

> I can install Windows on anything and it will work.

Not necessarily. There's plenty of instances of devices working poorly in Windows before the issues get patched (if they are at all).

If you want something that 'just works', you are indeed better with the Apple ecosystem. They control the hardware and software.

The only way around these issues is to pressure vendors to provide better Linux support. The only reason Windows laptops tend to work better out of the box (or at least with all hardware working to some extent) is because of all the testing done by vendors.

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