Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

frame.work

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 476 posts

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#231

Post by caskstrength »

r-w wrote: post #133
nrp wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, full, stable hardware compatibility and battery life. The Linux experience on the Framework Laptop on recent distros (e.g. Ubuntu 22.04.1) is solid, but battery life will still generally be better running Ubuntu on top of ChromeOS.

Interesting. Do we have a concrete reason why, e.g., TLP[0] falls short of the power management features offered on other OSes? [0]: https://linrunner.de/tlp/

We don't because it doesn't.

Battery life of ThinkPad that supports Linux with TLP installed and properly configured will be very similar to Windows. And to address FUD from other reply to your question: AFAIK official Firefox builds for Linux use PGO as well, however PGO has quite less impact on battery life than what another commenter suggests.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#232

Post by r2binx »

cbsmith wrote: post #217
duped wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual reason is that you can't enable hibernate with disk encryption

It tends to specifically be an issue with encrypted swap , because encrypted swap uses a random ephemeral encryption key. Honestly, I think in a lot of cases it makes sense to simply There are solutions for this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnableHibernateWithEncrypt... I think the real challenge here is for distro vendors to figure out how to provide a better user experience around this. There's no reason that…

Why use another encrypted partition instead of putting a swap partition/file on the same with LVM/btrfs?

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#233

Post by duped »

mkozlows wrote: post #199
jagrsw wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biased opinion here (working for Google). I love Linux and I would consider myself a power user (understanding HW arch, working with kernel sources). Basic Chromebook apps (+ Play Store) are something that "just work" for 80% of time for my use-cases (which is, browser and ssh-ing into a power machine in ze cloud/DC). I also have rather good understanding of threat models here, and the quality of the sandboxes and HW…

I agree that there are tons of great use cases for Chromebooks (I've owned like eight of them, including the Chromebook Pixel, and love them), but I also think that once you start getting into Android or Linux-heavy use cases, native devices are better than Chromebooks. An Android tablet is a muuuuuch better experience for running Android apps than the Pixel Slate. A Framework running Fedora is a muuuuuch better expe…

> I've owned like eight of them

This is something that jumps out to me - over how many years and why did you replace them?

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#234

Post by duped »

Arainach wrote: post #206
duped wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the question is, why ChromeOS instead of a Linux?

Biased opinion: I work on ChromeOS at Google Biased but informed opinion: I own a Framework Laptop running Ubuntu 22.04. Linux on a server or a desktop isn't so bad. Linux on a laptop is awful. Hibernation isn't supported. Battery life is mediocre, and battery drain in sleep is significant. If I close the lid on my Framework at 75% and come back the next day, it will be at 25%. If I come back in 3 days, it will be co…

I've noticed this on my framework running Pop but my XPS running Ubuntu has comparable battery life to the last MacBook I owned (granted, these are now both "old" laptops relative to the contemporary designs that have ludicrous battery life).

I will say I agree, you can't use a Linux laptop and take a video call without being tethered to power.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#235

Post by kelvie »

jagrsw wrote: post #128
duped wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the question is, why ChromeOS instead of a Linux?

Biased opinion here (working for Google). I love Linux and I would consider myself a power user (understanding HW arch, working with kernel sources). Basic Chromebook apps (+ Play Store) are something that "just work" for 80% of time for my use-cases (which is, browser and ssh-ing into a power machine in ze cloud/DC). I also have rather good understanding of threat models here, and the quality of the sandboxes and HW…

Less biased opinion here (don't work for google, don't hold stock, am primarily a Linux user at home), but I use(d) a Pixelbook for all the same reasons mentioned above, though I now use a Framework as my primary laptop, but mostly because I wanted to switch from Chrome -> Firefox for a bunch of other reasons.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#236

Post by seabrookmx »

NoraCodes wrote: post #97
seabrookmx wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is locked down, in a way. It doesn't ship with a regular UEFI bios so you can't just install an alternative OS.

Right, absolutely. That's a choice that people get to make - they can either buy a Framework laptop that does have the ability to change out the OS, or if their threat model requires it, one that doesn't . Either way, they get upgradable components and future-proofing. I don't see how that's a negative for freedom.

I'm not opposed to this device and actually think it's kind of cool. I use a Lenovo Duet as a secondary device and generally enjoy ChromeOS.

But I see your statements as a little contradictory.. unless I'm missing something.

> this is a total validation of the idea that security does not require a locked-down device

> but the device is locked down in a way..

> Right, absolutely

Maybe we are using different definitions of "locked down." I just wanted to point out that there is a trade-off here. You are giving up some freedom that most DIY'ers would expect (arbitrary OS choice) by choosing the ChromeOS version.

> they get upgradable components and future-proofing. I don't see how that's a negative for freedom

Agreed. Consumer choice isn't a bad thing!

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#237

Post by cbsmith »

nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

I'm comparing this with the 12-gen DIY offerings, and it seems like it's mostly the low-end configuration of the DIY with ChromeOS installed. The FAQ says there are some subtle differences like louder speakers and a "more power optimized battery". Can you clarify what "more power optimized" means (a rather vague statement as the specs page suggests the same capacity and durability)?

I noticed the 256GB of storage is different from the DIY options. I'm guessing this is driven by hardware support limitations for ChromeOS. I'm wondering if the same is true with the RAM.

The FAQ also says you can add memory and storage later, but I noticed the FAQ mentions "We recommend using modules from Google’s Chromebook compatibility lists, which can be viewed in our Knowledge Base, and are available for purchase on the Framework Marketplace." I didn't find that compatibility list anywhere in the Knowledge Base, but I did find this post (https://community.frame.work/t/introducing-the-framework-lap...) which seems to suggest you can upgrade to 64GB of RAM and 1TB of NVMe storage, though it's not clear if that's using parts that are on Google's compatibility list or not. Can you provide any clarity on this?

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#238

Post by kelvie »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #68

This is awesome! I still use my Pixelbook, and I love it, and was always dismayed that it seemed to be yet another great product that Google lost interest in. For folks wondering "who's the market in this?", the Linux container support in ChromeOS is awesome - my Pixelbook was actually a great dev laptop (I ran postgres, VSCode, Node, etc on it), just with age it's lack of upgrades is starting to show. So for me, on…

As also a current pixelbook user (it's now mostly a tablet replacement now that I bought a Framework), the only thing that would make this a full pixelbook replacement is a touch screen and a 360 hinge, so I can use it as a tablet.

Perhaps the next iteration, though that means replacing the whole chassis/screen (those seem harder to repurpose than the mainboard)

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#239

Post by kelvie »

nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

Are there plans to develop a touchscreen and a tablet mode for the the framework? And if so, can we at least re-use some of the existing parts, other than the mainboard?

I understand if you can't make promises here, I'm also on a product team :)

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#240

Post by cutierust »

nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

I wish you success and I hope the collaboration with google was financially rewarding but end of the day everything that doesn't work out would mentally hurt and thereby reduce chances of future successes. I would request you to kindly focus!
Post reply on HN