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Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

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151–160 of 197 posts

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations? You mean the same mechanism ISPs, food companies, "sin taxable" companies, etc use to capture entire segments of the market and price fix their way to a billion dollar profit? Or the regulations that nearly sank Tesla in the cradle that existed for no reason other than politicians are as corrupt, if not more, than the worst CEOs? 99.9% of the time regulation is unnecessary. Over-regulation is a huge prob…

If you didn’t have regulations you wouldn’t be able to consume or produce any modern product. It’s not worth making electronics if your users all have randomly shaped random voltage power sockets installed by whoever built their house, uncontrolled RF emissions, and want to pay you in private bank currencies you can’t spend. This is an example of the article - libertarianism requires people to replace how things actu…

> If you didn’t have regulations you wouldn’t be able to consume or produce any modern product. It’s not worth making electronics if your users all have randomly shaped random voltage power sockets installed by whoever built their house, uncontrolled RF emissions, and want to pay you in private bank currencies you can’t spend.

This isn't true at all. You basically backed this entire point up with "company store money is bad" which is true. But The Fed issues "Company Store" money that just so happens to be accepted widely. We don't have a public currency. Without a private corporation (The Fed) we would have no money because congress relinquished it's power several hundred years ago, and in 191x they sealed the deal with the Aldrich Bill. If you want to have a truly regulated socialist utopia you're going to need to go back about 200 years to stop the banksters.

"No regulations" does not mean "no standards". The difference is the onus is on the agreement between the company and user. In a theoretical free market (just like your theoretical land where regulation works) companies would cooperate for base goods like sockets, because by standardizing along sockets, other companies would be able to sell more products. Then they can sell more sockets, and the cycle continues. In fact regulation doesn't guide standardization except in the most surface-level sense.

Uncontrolled RF emissions is another strawman. The free market doesn't mean that BigCo. can drop a 5G tower in my backyard. Again, killing people is STILL bad in the libertarian world and exposing people to danger is similarly bad. As a counter-example, EPA regulations have done very little to stop chemical spills. EPA is an "after-the-fact" regulatory agency and companies have incentive to either buy them out (DuPont) or only fix exactly what they say (BP). There's no indication regulation fixed anything. In fact all regulatory agencies can only act after-the-fact. This makes them fundamentally useless towards protecting people before danger strikes. Do you know what spurs regulatory agencies into action? Wide, large scale, protests. These would also work in a free market. If BigCo's towers are microwaving birds the people have a responsibility to stop them. In the current over-regulated environment BigCo simply defers to the agency, which then drags it's feet for 10 years, and then comes up with a half-baked solution that the company finds another end-around for.

You are conflating "regulation" with "standardization" in order to make a point about how libertarians are smooth brained pseudointellectuals but you ended up hurting yourself in the process.

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've done better financially in life, I've become more radical. I'm one data point, but my experience contradicts your conclusion. I think in my case, it was a realization that I'm not working harder than other people or even working things that matter more than anybody else (in fact, on the contrary) and that at least 90% of my success can be attributed to luck. So if my success is not due to my deeds but rather…

It seems to me you are overgeneralizing from your own case and understating the effects of your choices on the outcome in characterizing success as random. But even if it is random, you should hold out for demonstrably better alternative before giving up on preserving the existing one. There are worse outcomes than randomly distributed success.

> It seems to me you are overgeneralizing from your own case and understating the effects of your choices on the outcome in characterizing success as random.

You think my only point of observation is myself? I even said in my original comment that I compare myself to others.

> you should hold out for demonstrably better alternative

Or work toward creating a better alternative, driven by my radical ideas for how things need to change. Why wait around for everyone else to fix things (or, more likely, sit around on their asses waiting for other people to change things)?

> There are worse outcomes than randomly distributed success.

Like I said, my analysis does not stop at myself or just at "success" as the main factor to optimize for. There are other reasons for changing the overall organization of the economic system. The current system demonstrably does not scale.

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This view is actually very narrow-minded, much more than simply having views you aren't able to deftly articulate or defend against a dedicated opponent. It compresses an absolutely huge realm of human experience (believing things???) into a very small one (arguing about them on the internet), and then tries to judo it so the first doesn't matter unless you can ably commit to the second. Tragic reduction of your worl…

You're making assumptions to strengthen your criticism without actually responding to what I said.

In the end, you just wanted to insult me and virtue signal. It's boring.

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#154
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't climate change the result of communal ownership of the air? As for space, the orbits are full of dangerous space junk. A classic tragedy of the commons.

So your definition of a free market is one in which there is no possible resource that isn't owned and commodified?

No, I didn't say that. I did say that all communal ownership resources are subject to tragedy of the commons.

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hoarding toilet paper is only of value if you can resell it. Hence the total amount available remains the same. If hoarding fetches higher prices, that creates tremendous incentive to increase the supply (and/or find alternatives). If hoarding is illegal, and gouging is illegal, the result is shortages. Every time, since there is zero incentive to produce more. Rationing has other problems. It is based on the idea th…

This seems irrational. The need for many commodities like TP or water is fairly homogeneous and predictable, and excess is typically just used later or shared rather than abandoned. It's better in that you can maximize the number of people who have a sufficient supply to get through the emergency. Again, I'm still wondering why you cite government as the opponents of free market pricing, when the objections often ori…

Utility is maximized by allowing supply&demand to work. No two people have the same use for any commodity - rationing provides some people with too much and the rest with too little. Nobody gets just the right amount under rationing.

> government as the opponents of free market pricing, when the objections often originate with people who are mad

The government does what the people demand. The people demand the government outlaw gouging, the government outlaws it.

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#156
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you really be said to hold a view that you can't even evangelize. Yeah, most definitely, I realise as I get older (I'm in my early 40s now) that life is quite complicated and there's almost no "evangelical"-like truth to it. Especially not when it comes to economics, that's for sure.

Ok, cool view you have there about life that you can't express beyond "its quite complicated".

Yes, pure 100% libertarianism results in people dying in the streets because of no medical services, pure 100% communism results in people dying in internment camps. This is if we want to talk about economics, but we can extend that view to lots and lots of other fields. The onus is on the other side, to show that an evangelical "there is only one truth" thing really works.

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beauty of the free market is that instead of suppressing selfish motives, it enables them in a way that benefits society. It's why Americans live the highest standard of living in the world. Socialism fails because it relies on altruistic behavior, which is in short supply in humans.

>It's why Americans live the highest standard of living in the world. Some Americans*, and far fewer than those that have some of the lowest standards of living in the world. And the US has greater wealth disparity than many other countries with living standards many would argue are at least equal. Altruism isnt necessary, education is. Education teaches people that the best way to prevent the most harmful acts in so…

America's crime is due to drug abuse and the government not enforcing criminal laws. People aren't stealing food to eat, they're stealing alcohol and anything they can sell to buy drugs.

Americans have the highest standard of living in the world. That's why the poor from everywhere are trying to get into the US. Do you watch the news about all those migrants pouring over the border?

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Allowing market participants to discharge toxins into the local water supply is not in society's interests but is quite possible in a purely free-market system. A pure free market system would not allow people to pollute other peoples' property.

How do you define property rights for air and water? If I own a section of a stream and I dump my garbage into it, am I polluting my property or another's property? What if the consequences were unforeseen (as is often the case with groundwater contamination)? Edit: moreover how is "the free market" going to defend the property rights of others in these cases? I assume via civil litigation. But what if my victims can…

> If I own a section of a stream and I dump my garbage into it, am I polluting my property or another's property?

You're polluting other peoples' property.

> how is "the free market" going to defend the property rights of others in these cases?

That's the proper role of government.

> But what if my victims can't afford prolonged litigation or I decide that the potential cost of a settlement is less than the cost of disposing of pollutants properly?

Such issues are true of any economic system I can think of.

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tradgedy of the commons That has to do with diffusion of responsibility for communal property. What does that have to do with markets. > ability of a large participant to drop prices to eliminate competition then raise prices I think the market has ways to adapt to such behavior. Regulatory capture in a non-free market seems like a much more likely, and more persistent, risk. > inability of market forces to handle…

By what metric is the US market free? I find it difficult to believe that it would be considered anything other than in a state of regulatory capture.

> By what metric is the US market free?

You can start any business you like. People do it all the time.

Re: Intelligence and radical economic attitudes

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, cool view you have there about life that you can't express beyond "its quite complicated".

Yes, pure 100% libertarianism results in people dying in the streets because of no medical services, pure 100% communism results in people dying in internment camps. This is if we want to talk about economics, but we can extend that view to lots and lots of other fields. The onus is on the other side, to show that an evangelical "there is only one truth" thing really works.

thanks for providing evidence for my claim that most people's "views" are actually just barren husks without content.
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