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React I love you, but you're bringing me down

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Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you finding much "professional traction" with Vue? I really like Vue and use it for personal projects but React seems to dominate the job postings.

Vue is mostly used in China, where there is a preference for Chinese tech.

Vue isn't "Chinese tech".

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#512
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, I don't have the time or interest to, and to be quite honest while I am qualified to implement just about anything you want in vanilla JS, jQuery, [old versions of] Angular, React, or Vue2, I'm very likely not qualified to judge a brand new one on its merits other than just a superficial comparison to the ones I've used before.

So why post something snarky and try to discourage me? Serious question: what was the motivating factor that made you take the time to reach for that cartoon and respond to me with it?

It's a joke - and a pretty common/unoriginal one at that. Calm down.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#513
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to select a good framework and coming from long before react, having a tough time finding why shouldn't use just custom elements with no framework. Which is already built in. customElements.define('my-element', class MyElement extends HTMLElement { ... }) I can manage state within the component, app state in window.state. Coding up a simple reactivity is really pretty straight forward. Now, for this featur…

Last time I used them, web components were incredibly slow. They were so slow to render, after using maybe 2 or 3 of them I realized why nobody is trying to build apps this way. Just isn't there yet. Probably won't be until HTML Imports are merged with JS Imports.

Stop your propaganda, the Internet largest video platform uses Web components with Polyfill.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're mixing up server side and client side. The point of GraphQL is to make a client request only what data it needs rather than making X different REST calls then combining and filtering them in the client side. That's it, that's the entire purpose. (If you then ask, why not have REST calls that give specific pieces of information, ie have sorts and filters within the query parameters, and be able to take a table…

So if front-end devs get everything they need client side, what’s the point of having backend devs? https://imgflip.com/i/6u4obk

The backend still needs to implement the endpoints for the frontend? Not sure what you mean, if anything the backend work increases because everything is done on the backend now.

And did you really link me to a meme you made specifically for this conversation?

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#515

I've worked in a few roughly-the-same-size (~50 engineers) web development shops. It's always the same. Doesn't matter if it's React, Angular, Class based components, Functional components with hooks, Just Some HTML, PHP, Rails views, etc. The frontend just collects the cruft of a product organization changing course very frequently. There are always a dozen half-finished fix-the-world ideas conflicting with each oth…

I’ve had similar experiences, but I wonder how much of this is truly inevitable because software development is complicated and requirements often change along the way, and how much is simply bad management. I’ve noticed that over time the prevailing culture in software development has drifted more and more towards “thinking small”. This has certainly been encouraged by the shift to web and mobile apps in an always-c…

> First it was just the code. Short functions, few parameters, shallow nesting. Make everything testable and maintainable!

I don't think this is related to losing sight of the big picture, no more than focusing on good clear sentences means you can't write Anna Karenina.

But I do agree that sometimes the big picture is lost, with tasks that have been broken down inappropriately.

I have a suspicion that partly this is driven by open plan offices: tasks have to be broken down, as focus is a luxury.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Graphql fans will attempt to convince you the way you’re querying data is wrong. You can do triggers if needed but graphql to me seems like a solution to internal enterprise data wrangling ootb. I don’t see the benefit of using it over an orm when you add in multiple databases, a working data store, etc

Yeah I'm not entirely sold on GraphQL but I think it shines in some cases. Ex: you are building on top of third party ecommerce software. You need to add more data to the Cart entity because you have a custom module/plugin/etc. You write a graphql resolver, extend the schema and the Cart type. You can use the existing built-in endpoint to query your new data. So it's nice to be able to extend a framework and data acc…

Parent is mixing up GraphQL and ORMs which serve two completely different purposes and doesn't seem to have actually used GraphQL. GraphQL is purely a way for a client to request some data instead of REST. How the backend serves that request is not any concern to the frontend, the backend can use an ORM or it can use raw SQL, or whatever else it wants.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're mixing up server side and client side. The point of GraphQL is to make a client request only what data it needs rather than making X different REST calls then combining and filtering them in the client side. That's it, that's the entire purpose. (If you then ask, why not have REST calls that give specific pieces of information, ie have sorts and filters within the query parameters, and be able to take a table…

So if front-end devs get everything they need client side, what’s the point of having backend devs? https://imgflip.com/i/6u4obk

The pitch I remember back when it first was released was that GraphQL was meant for development, when the API was still changing a lot, and was supposed to be replaced with dedicated API calls before going to production. During development frontend devs has something flexible they could use without pestering the backend constantly, then the dedicated non-GraphQL production version would be stable and could be significantly more optimized than the GraphQL version.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can write bad things in every language. "It takes a lot of skill to write Java in any language." is a pithy quote for a reason. The issue is usually frontend pedagogy or the lack of it. Maybe things have changed but when I graduated undergrad CS in 2017 the extent of frontend being taught in my school by professors was "hand write some HTML, maybe some PHP if you're lucky". I've never met anyone who learned fr…

woah woah hold on there young one This isn't that. My hostile working definition of a framework is something that . breaks core assumptions about a language or system . limits what a user is permitted to do . increases complexities by adding new abstractions . has non-specific specifications by using unclear and imprecise language At the end you are hardly writing software. Instead you're deep into a world of new abs…

This is a great reply and something I've noticed IME as well. I'm sure there is an economic term for it, but it's like perverse incentives coupled with unconsciousness.

Echoing the other replies that we want to read more of your thoughts (book, articles, blog). Is your site in your profile the best way to follow you?

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#519
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React doesn't change frequently though, that's the point. And it has always had excellent backwards compatibility. Class components are still fully supported, for example.

React changes best practices every few years prompting many rewrites.

Right but you dont actually have to rewrite it, correct? The updates dont break the old code. It's just not best practice anymore.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#520
post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why post something snarky and try to discourage me? Serious question: what was the motivating factor that made you take the time to reach for that cartoon and respond to me with it?

It's a joke - and a pretty common/unoriginal one at that. Calm down.

Don't tell me what to do. You acted like a clown and got busted. If you're going to open your mouth, be able to back it up—otherwise sit down and be quiet.
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