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React I love you, but you're bringing me down

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Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#471

Post by kristopolous »

imbnwa wrote: post #432
kristopolous wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

woah woah hold on there young one This isn't that. My hostile working definition of a framework is something that . breaks core assumptions about a language or system . limits what a user is permitted to do . increases complexities by adding new abstractions . has non-specific specifications by using unclear and imprecise language At the end you are hardly writing software. Instead you're deep into a world of new abs…

Give us the doc

When it's ready. I'm going to look for a published

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#472

Post by kristopolous »

tiberriver256 wrote: post #360
kristopolous wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

woah woah hold on there young one This isn't that. My hostile working definition of a framework is something that . breaks core assumptions about a language or system . limits what a user is permitted to do . increases complexities by adding new abstractions . has non-specific specifications by using unclear and imprecise language At the end you are hardly writing software. Instead you're deep into a world of new abs…

Link to the doc?

When it's ready. I'm going to look for a published

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#474

Post by cercatrova »

edgyquant wrote: post #470
cercatrova wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I understand because I use GraphQL with an ORM, Prisma with Postgres and Pothos which converts the Prisma schema into GraphQL types. It even has the ability to use Redis as a store. So we get all the features of an ORM and also typesafe queries.

Right my point is that 1. It incentivized using it as the data model which is both inefficient and lossy in regards to transactions. 2. what’s the purpose of graphql in this context? You have to use an ORM anyway with which you can do all delegations to servers etc your heart desires and with typescript you can ensure proper column types regardless. You can trivially autogenerate objects or any kind of descriptor fro…

GraphQL is for the client to efficiently query data, it is not supposed to be used as a SQL replacement on the server side. If people are using it for a server side query language, that is not what its benefit is.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#475

Post by throwaway675309 »

rglover wrote: post #16

Come to the dark side, we have cooookies https://github.com/cheatcode/joystick

I took a very brief look at your project. I saw reams of documentation, which is good, but not a single FAQ or a comparison table answering perhaps one of the most important questions to somebody who's already familiar with existing frameworks such as react, angular, and vue, which are:

What distinguishes your framework?

Who should use it?

What does it do? And more importantly, what doesn't it do?

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#476

Post by edgyquant »

cercatrova wrote: post #474
edgyquant wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right my point is that 1. It incentivized using it as the data model which is both inefficient and lossy in regards to transactions. 2. what’s the purpose of graphql in this context? You have to use an ORM anyway with which you can do all delegations to servers etc your heart desires and with typescript you can ensure proper column types regardless. You can trivially autogenerate objects or any kind of descriptor fro…

GraphQL is for the client to efficiently query data, it is not supposed to be used as a SQL replacement on the server side. If people are using it for a server side query language, that is not what its benefit is.

How can the client most efficiently query data from a sql database without joins? Surely there are cases this would be needed to speedup grabbing of data?

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#477

Post by cercatrova »

edgyquant wrote: post #476
cercatrova wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GraphQL is for the client to efficiently query data, it is not supposed to be used as a SQL replacement on the server side. If people are using it for a server side query language, that is not what its benefit is.

How can the client most efficiently query data from a sql database without joins? Surely there are cases this would be needed to speedup grabbing of data?

Any ORM will handle getting data with joins just fine when it constructs the SQL. Or you can write your own SQL with joins to pass along to the query.

If you mean GraphQL doesn't have joins, I'm not sure in what use case that would matter when you're declaratively asking the server for some data, not hand constructing SQL. What would you need joins in? You mean like this example [0]?

[0] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51805890/how-to-do-a-sim...

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#478

Post by rob-olmos »

cercatrova wrote: post #474
edgyquant wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right my point is that 1. It incentivized using it as the data model which is both inefficient and lossy in regards to transactions. 2. what’s the purpose of graphql in this context? You have to use an ORM anyway with which you can do all delegations to servers etc your heart desires and with typescript you can ensure proper column types regardless. You can trivially autogenerate objects or any kind of descriptor fro…

GraphQL is for the client to efficiently query data, it is not supposed to be used as a SQL replacement on the server side. If people are using it for a server side query language, that is not what its benefit is.

IIRC in the Gatsby framework it has a built-in GraphQL parser for server-side developers to query data from Gatsby plugins, which can be things like data stores, other APIs, or even a mixture and blended together.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#479

Post by resonious »

throwaway284534 wrote: post #10

As a developer who’s been working with React since the beta, I can confidently say that the author is speaking the truth. Especially so near the end of the article where they can’t seem to quit React. For all the annoyances of Hooks, they really are a godsend when it comes to composing state. And refs do indeed suck, but they sucked even more with class based components. I can’t tell you how many times I was able to…

I think my sentiment is echoed in some sibling comments as well, but I have been having a good time with vanilla JS lately.

React and friends really do make certain things easier and "nicer". But when you sit down and think about it, those things aren't that bad with vanilla JS. It really makes me wonder what value React et al is adding for the cost in KB and mental overhead.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#480

Post by bigDinosaur »

wiredearp wrote: post #119
wpietri wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you say more about this? I'm not a React user, but to me one of the OO fundamentals is "object = behavior + state". What you're saying sounds so obviously correct to me that I guess there's something pretty weird going on in React-land?

In React terms, "functional" almost always implies the opposite of purely functional. It just means that the component is declared by a function instead of a class. First time you call it, the function can assign state that it may reference in future calls, not unlike the methods of a class. How they actually go about this is however almost entirely weird.

Classes in JS are just functions anyway, and functions can have state. Saving the state of a function is a different thing, but of course JS allows that, too. Why is it weird?
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