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YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

engadget.com

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Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#161

Post by tstrimple »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #32

The trick to improving YouTube recommendations is to regularly prune uninteresting videos and channels. Eventually this should start surfacing videos you're more likely to find interesting. I've actually hit the end of my recommendation stream on the mobile app after marking dozens of videos with Not Interested. Once this happens it starts recommending videos you've already watched or older videos from creators you'v…

Recommendations for old videos drives me crazy. There is a magic the gathering YouTuber who releases daily content that I watch (at least in the background) daily. I want to see the current state of the game and the meta being played. Videos of his from two years ago do nothing at all for me. He has years of content, and I don’t want to actually block his channel from recommendations so I guess I just put up with it.

Similar story with a guy who reviews indie games daily. I want to see the future (potential) indie hits not the games from years ago.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#162

Post by scantron4 »

teh_klev wrote: post #51
svnpenn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm never interested in rewatching stuff I've already seen. thats a weird position. The whole point of YouTube (used to be anyway) was long form content. YouTube is not new anymore. You really have no interest in watching some good 10 minute video you saw 9 years ago?

I also don't want to be recommended videos I've already watched. If it's something I might want to see again then I save it in a playlist, I don't need YouTube pestering me to re-watch old stuff.

amen

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#163

Post by tstrimple »

darth_avocado wrote: post #68
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #32

The trick to improving YouTube recommendations is to regularly prune uninteresting videos and channels. Eventually this should start surfacing videos you're more likely to find interesting. I've actually hit the end of my recommendation stream on the mobile app after marking dozens of videos with Not Interested. Once this happens it starts recommending videos you've already watched or older videos from creators you'v…

The biggest problem with this approach is that it takes a lot of curation to get your recommendation in a decent shape and it takes you one accidental video view to have your feed be full of uninteresting content related to that video. This asymmetry is the root of all the recommendation system problems.

Same thing with task specific videos I watch. I just wanted to see how to remove the starter from my van. I’m not a car enthusiast. Please stop polluting everything in my recommendations based on these one off videos.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#164

Post by dmix »

londons_explore wrote: post #77

Long ago, tech giant CEO's realised that recommendation systems are very powerful. They can trick hundreds of millions of users into spending double digit percentages of their life watching memes. From that point on, focus was reduced on working on recommenders. Instead the goal was not to trick users into spending their whole life on the platform, but to maximize ad revenue from those users in the limited time they…

I find both TikTok's and Youtube's algorithms show me highly relevant and interesting content. The idea that it only shows you memes seems to come from people who a) dont actually use these services more deeply than surface level interactions or b) they are actually watching low-quality memes (meaning finishing more than 75% of the videos) so Youtube/TikTok is simply showing them what they previously indicated they are interested in.

When I bought Youtube premium I started using it much more seriously (meaning curating subscriptions, marking things as "Not Interested", and actually following up on my notification feed when new videos get released) and I've been amazed at the level of quality it delivers. It learns exactly what you like and dislike.

And no it doesnt force feed me politics or ragebait like Reddit and Twitter - both of which do in spite of my efforts to curate them.

TikTok took a bit of time investment at first but now it shows me HN-style tech stuff, highly local restaurant recommendations, nerdy film stuff, etc. I never see dancing teenagers and I don't think I ever saw them after the first day I used TikTok.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#165

Post by iroh2727 »

robswc wrote: post #96

Honestly, I feel like YouTube recommendation is the _only_ good thing YouTube has lol. I often see a ton of complaints about the recommendations but I've honestly never had an issue. I know that yes, you click on one video and now all the sudden you get 100s of that type... but it sorta works for me since it seems like that "effect" wears off just as fast as it starts. For example, I have a friend that's into cars. I…

Completely disagree. I think what is great about YouTube are the subset of creators that make genuinely good content, and especially those creators you follow consistently for a long time and really enjoy and get something out of.

The algos are useful if I follow so many creators that I can’t keep up, or occasionally I get some good unexpected content. But my favorite creators were all recommended me by other people, not algos.

Also, the algos just peddle in commoditized interactions like Likes and Watch Time and Subscribes. They can only optimize for meaningful creator-observer relationship so far as that’s measured by Watch Time, Subscribe, etc.

Not to mention some obvious problems how clickbaity the recs are for new/anonymous users or on videos with few views. Or the whole Elsagate incident (which no doubt continues to be a problem).

Overall I still like YT but I don’t think the commoditized algos are helping much. Just let me get recs from friends or search for what I want. Don’t try to get me to doomwatch easy content all day… and especially don’t try to get kids to doomwatch easy content all day.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#166

Post by chizhik-pyzhik »

khyryk wrote: post #150
everdrive wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some might say that you can still use search At some point Youtube search was neutered. I get 5-10 results for any given query before Youtube gives up and just offers me recommendations rather than search results. Interestingly, if I search google for [search term] site:youtube.com, I actually get pages of results which are never present in the Youtube search. Sadly, it seems that Google has intentionally diminished…

I've had videos not show up in the YouTube search despite the query matching the video title verbatim.

Prepend your search with 'intitle:' and you'll get results with the string in the title.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#167

Post by Legion »

The only way to make YouTube even remotely tolerable is with liberal use of the "Not Interested" and "Don't Recommend Channel" functions.

I also set up separate YouTube viewing accounts by interest, so that I can clobber away everything not related to a specific interest in that particular account (eg. anything not sports related gets "Don't Recommend Channel"'d in my Sports YT account).

YouTube pretty much fights you tooth and nail the whole way, but eventually your blocking of irrelevant and garbage recommendations leaves them no choice but recommending things related to that interest.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#168

Post by tb0ne »

everdrive wrote: post #82
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #32

The trick to improving YouTube recommendations is to regularly prune uninteresting videos and channels. Eventually this should start surfacing videos you're more likely to find interesting. I've actually hit the end of my recommendation stream on the mobile app after marking dozens of videos with Not Interested. Once this happens it starts recommending videos you've already watched or older videos from creators you'v…

>Some might say that you can still use search At some point Youtube search was neutered. I get 5-10 results for any given query before Youtube gives up and just offers me recommendations rather than search results. Interestingly, if I search google for [search term] site:youtube.com, I actually get pages of results which are never present in the Youtube search. Sadly, it seems that Google has intentionally diminished…

Yes, Youtube litters search results with completely unrelated "recommended videos".

One trick to get rid of them is to select one/any additional search filter (for example select HD only).

It is absolutely ridiculous that you have to do this, but it works for now.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#169

Post by cortesoft »

Legion wrote: post #167

The only way to make YouTube even remotely tolerable is with liberal use of the "Not Interested" and "Don't Recommend Channel" functions. I also set up separate YouTube viewing accounts by interest, so that I can clobber away everything not related to a specific interest in that particular account (eg. anything not sports related gets "Don't Recommend Channel"'d in my Sports YT account). YouTube pretty much fights yo…

I use YouTube, but only direct links or searches. I never use YouTube itself to find my next video

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#170

Post by bobsmooth »

Sophistifunk wrote: post #75

Why is everybody pretending the recommendation system is designed to show you what you want to see, rather than to maximise ad revenue?

Those two are the same thing. If the algo recommends good videos, you keep watching. More watch time more ads.
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