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NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

ntsb.gov

51–60 of 212 posts

Re: NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

#51
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really sure what you're arguing for here. Are you for drunk driving or excessive speed driving or both?

> you for drunk driving or excessive speed driving or both? I’m against a system that refuses to let me drive because it thinks I’m drunk. Or a system that would prevent me from breaking the speed limit, at my discretion, e.g. in an emergency.

Are you saying that anyone should be allowed to drive whatever speed they like, based on their "discretion"? If so, is that different from getting rid of speed limits?

Re: NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

#52
post #34
post #2

A handful of years back the NHTSA announced that all new cars would have to have a vehicle to vehicle 5.7-5.9 GHz system for announcing vehicle position, velocity, and cryptographically signed ID. Luckily the dates just came and went and the manufacturers didn't do it. The NHTSA folded and eventually the FCC gave that ~hundreds MHz of 5 GHz band back to wifi. Hopefully that's what will happen here. The NTSB only reco…

Not really sure what you're arguing for here. Are you for drunk driving or excessive speed driving or both?

[deleted]

Re: NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

#53
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you for drunk driving or excessive speed driving or both? I’m against a system that refuses to let me drive because it thinks I’m drunk. Or a system that would prevent me from breaking the speed limit, at my discretion, e.g. in an emergency.

I'm against disabling cars, but all for automatically notifying 911.

> against disabling cars, but all for automatically notifying 911

Depending on the system's accuracy, this could be a fair compromise. Alternatively: a black box record in case something goes wrong. Less preventative. But deterring and reasonable.

Re: NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

#54
Honestly I think this is a really good thing. I expect a huge backlash but when you look at it, there's really no good arguments against.

What about freedoms? Unlike speech, you don't have a Constitutional right to drive drunk. I think even hard libertarians would balk at arguing "people should have the right to down 8 beers and then tear up 70mph on the highway". Because unlike freedom of expression drunk driving really does impact others, it's one of the leading causes of death and "I drive completely fine when drunk" is something nobody can say confidently.

What if the BAC fails when you're not drunk? After all BACs aren't 100% accurate. Now this really is a serious issue. But it's also something I really don't see happening. Because false positives in the BAC hurt sales, so auto manufacturers are going to skew towards false negatives. Capitalism is a really strong force, and capitalism says you don't want to prevent people from starting their car unless they are definitely drunk, because that generates bad coverage which ultimately hurts sales. Especially because the regulations are going in effect three years the earliest, so there's plenty of time to device better easier tests, so consumers aren't compelled to ditch your car for one with no BAC or a more reliable BAC.

Ok, but what if I'm drunk and there's a huge tornado or someone's chasing me and the only option is to drive recklessly? This is also an issue. But perhaps in that case there could be some emergency override which notifies law enforcement.

Ok, but what about speeding? The NTSB is not having vehicles check for speeding and they will not any time soon. Everyone speeds, on certain roads you actually put yourself in danger by driving under the speed limit, and speed limits are ultimately widely regarded as dumb. DUI laws are widely regarded as not dumb.

The bottom line is, unless there are really exceptional circumstances, you should not be driving drunk. And nobody is arguing that you should be allowed to drive drunk. So I think something which physically prevents you from driving drunk and breaking a near universally-accepted law, despite limiting your freedoms, is fine.

Re: NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

#55
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. In most cases the actual jail time is suspended. Jail costs the city/town. Getting you back in the road insures more tax revenue and your fines will most likely get paid which is additional revenue to the city.

> the actual jail time is suspended. As you said, the sentence is suspended - because the person agrees to the option of staying out of jail with conditions which the person agrees to comply with. If the person doesn't want that option then they do the jail time.

I get what you’re saying.

From what I have seen (obviously laws vary by location) it’s jail time (typically 365 days suspended) AND interlock. Not a choice between the two.

Re: NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

#56

The text of this law is nonsensical. > The passage defining what Congress actually wants describes a system that can "passively monitor the performance of a driver of a motor vehicle to accurately identify whether that driver may be impaired; and... prevent or limit motor vehicle operation if an impairment is detected." This is only half of the proposed system, though. The other half specifically references blood alc…

For the first half, it's possible by requiring manual drive for a few minutes before auto cruise. It's enough to handle most cases unless driver drink alcohol in the car.

Re: NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

#57

Honestly I think this is a really good thing. I expect a huge backlash but when you look at it, there's really no good arguments against. What about freedoms? Unlike speech, you don't have a Constitutional right to drive drunk. I think even hard libertarians would balk at arguing "people should have the right to down 8 beers and then tear up 70mph on the highway". Because unlike freedom of expression drunk driving re…

There are two good arguments against this that you didn't address at all. The first is on principle: things that you own shouldn't enforce laws against you. The second is practical: unless the machine always says "negative", false positives will happen, and you provide no solution for when they do.

Re: NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you for drunk driving or excessive speed driving or both? I’m against a system that refuses to let me drive because it thinks I’m drunk. Or a system that would prevent me from breaking the speed limit, at my discretion, e.g. in an emergency.

Are you saying that anyone should be allowed to drive whatever speed they like, based on their "discretion"? If so, is that different from getting rid of speed limits?

Distinguish "anyone should be capable of driving whatever speed they like" vs. "it should be legal for anyone to drive whatever speed they like".

Re: NTSB Calls for Alcohol Detection Systems in All New Vehicles

#60

Honestly I think this is a really good thing. I expect a huge backlash but when you look at it, there's really no good arguments against. What about freedoms? Unlike speech, you don't have a Constitutional right to drive drunk. I think even hard libertarians would balk at arguing "people should have the right to down 8 beers and then tear up 70mph on the highway". Because unlike freedom of expression drunk driving re…

There are two good arguments against this that you didn't address at all. The first is on principle: things that you own shouldn't enforce laws against you. The second is practical: unless the machine always says "negative", false positives will happen, and you provide no solution for when they do.

Generally I agree with the principle that things you own should not be enforcing laws. I'm far more annoyed at the encroachment of the "nanny state" than I was in my younger days... So i'm sympathetic to the viewpoint...

But this feels more like "design machine with appropriate safeguards so owner cant kill self/others" ... like SawStop or Bosch REAXX on circular saws or a Riving Knife on a table saw. Designing a tool/device/vehicle to avoid injury, especially when that injury can impact people around them is a good thing. Trains have devices to (attempt) to ensure the driver is paying attention to prevent accidents. With numbers like "over 10000 deaths due to drunk driving each year" and "over 100000 injuries related to drunk driving accidents each year" it starts to look like allowing people to operate these vehicles while under the influence is something the manufacturers should be preventing to avoid injury to the public.

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