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You don’t want to be on Cloudflare’s naughty list

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Re: You don’t want to be on Cloudflare’s naughty list

#121

Post by aendruk »

therealmarv wrote: post #32

If you surf on desktop sites from Philippines on a mobile phone plan (which is often the best Internet connection in that country) you also get Cloudflare's captchas everywhere. I told it before and tell it now again: Cloudflare is dividing the World between first and second/third World countries with their captchas. I call it discrimination of second/third World countries! If you are from US and Europe you will neve…

The other side of this story is that PLDT stands out from other residential networks as a persistent source of web form spam. I’d love to learn what’s going on differently there.

Re: You don’t want to be on Cloudflare’s naughty list

#122

Post by tarakat »

tomxor wrote: post #38
jgrahamc wrote: post #3

Well into the second day of Cloudflare’s blockade of my home internet connection, Google Search also began blocking requests. It required me to resolve a CAPTCHA challenge for every other search. This luckily only lasted a day. Cloudflare shares IP reputation data with partners like Google, coordinated through a program called the Bandwidth Alliance. So, my original offense might not even have been against Cloudflare…

FYI, this guy is far from alone, your "protection" has given me a lot of grief over the past few years, particularly on highly NATed mobile networks. I've been gradually removing cloudflare based CDNs from services I develop and control because I don't want my users being arbitrarily discriminated against. There was a good article posted on HN recently titled "The ideal level of fraud is non-zero" which I think is hi…

You're looking at it all wrong. From Cloudflare's point of view, this kind of blocking is a feature. Anyone doing legitimate web crawling, or offering alternative web services such as Starlink, now needs Cloudflare's permission.

Essentially, for a broad class of web-based businesses, they have made themselves gatekeepers. I'm sure they'll find a profitable use for this position. Charging outright would look bad, but investing in businesses that just happen to not run into Cloudflare-based trouble, but whose competitors do...

Re: You don’t want to be on Cloudflare’s naughty list

#123

Post by judge2020 »

pessimizer wrote: post #110
judge2020 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that Cloudflare does not beam IP reputation data to Google. If Google and CF are blocking this IP separately, what's the chance there's some malicious device or hacked IoT device on the network, participating in DDOS attacks or unauthorized vulnerability scanning of random websites?

According to another comment, it's a wrong point: https://blog.cloudflare.com/cleaning-up-bad-bots/ > Once enabled, when we detect a bad bot, we will do three things: (1) we’re going to disincentivize the bot maker economically by tarpitting them, including requiring them to solve a computationally intensive challenge that will require more of their bot’s CPU; (2) for Bandwidth Alliance partners, we’re going to hand…

I'm pretty sure this was for a situation like Digitalocean themselves hosting a bot, but such IP sharing very well might be currently (ab)used by partners, if it's happening here.

Re: You don’t want to be on Cloudflare’s naughty list

#124

Post by cma »

Syonyk wrote: post #91
NelsonMinar wrote: post #63

Cloudflare is a regular problem for Starlink users. We're on CGNAT so users share IPv4 addresses. I see CAPTCHAs when using Starlink ten times as often as on my other ISP. I don't think it actually breaks things the way this article describes, it seems like a gentler behavior, but it's annoying. A few months ago I got on Akamai's naughty list (with my other ISP) for some very light automated website downloading. That…

> Cloudflare is a regular problem for Starlink users. We're on CGNAT so users share IPv4 addresses. I see CAPTCHAs when using Starlink ten times as often as on my other ISP. I don't think it actually breaks things the way this article describes, it seems like a gentler behavior, but it's annoying. I've been noticing this too, and it's why Starlink remains my secondary ISP/bulk transfer connection. If I had to drop on…

> I've been noticing this too, and it's why Starlink remains my secondary ISP/bulk transfer connection. If I had to drop one connection, I'd drop Starlink for this reason alone.

Could cloudflare legally charge them a bribe to captcha their users less? It isnt good to have a company in this position of power if so.

Re: You don’t want to be on Cloudflare’s naughty list

#126

Post by somedude895 »

Syonyk wrote: post #91
NelsonMinar wrote: post #63

Cloudflare is a regular problem for Starlink users. We're on CGNAT so users share IPv4 addresses. I see CAPTCHAs when using Starlink ten times as often as on my other ISP. I don't think it actually breaks things the way this article describes, it seems like a gentler behavior, but it's annoying. A few months ago I got on Akamai's naughty list (with my other ISP) for some very light automated website downloading. That…

> Cloudflare is a regular problem for Starlink users. We're on CGNAT so users share IPv4 addresses. I see CAPTCHAs when using Starlink ten times as often as on my other ISP. I don't think it actually breaks things the way this article describes, it seems like a gentler behavior, but it's annoying. I've been noticing this too, and it's why Starlink remains my secondary ISP/bulk transfer connection. If I had to drop on…

> If I had to drop one connection, I'd drop Starlink for this reason alone.

Why are you using Starlink at all if you have other options?

Re: You don’t want to be on Cloudflare’s naughty list

#128

Post by chrismorgan »

therealmarv wrote: post #32

If you surf on desktop sites from Philippines on a mobile phone plan (which is often the best Internet connection in that country) you also get Cloudflare's captchas everywhere. I told it before and tell it now again: Cloudflare is dividing the World between first and second/third World countries with their captchas. I call it discrimination of second/third World countries! If you are from US and Europe you will neve…

I’ve had a similar experience in India with wired internet from a local ISP: CGNAT is used so there are who knows how many customers on the same IPv4 address, https://iknowwhatyoudownload.com/ shows at least forty hours of movies being downloaded every day, the IP address is on half the blacklists out there because someone is part of an email-sending botnet, and yeah, Cloudflare hates you.

Re: You don’t want to be on Cloudflare’s naughty list

#130

Post by jgrahamc »

d2wa wrote: post #119
jgrahamc wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to look into that. Thanks for pointing it out. I had totally forgotten about that post. Edit: team tells me this idea never got off the ground. Did talk with some potential partners (which did NOT include Google) but didn’t happen. So if Google was throwing CAPTCHAs it wasn’t because of our IP reputation.

Dear John. What am I — as a normal human being/end-user — supposed to do in this situation? People can’t do anything without any information about why they’re blocked. Who do you contact? Where do you go? What to do? The challenge page doesn’t help the end user understand why this is happening to them. It’s okay if you only see it for two seconds. But the page stays on screen for over a minute. When this happens for…

Once upon a time Matthew made us set the IP reputation of every Cloudflare office to bad so that we experienced the worst case scenario. Helped a lot.

I don’t understand why you saw one minute block screens. That’s not right. Should be seconds.

I’m talking with the team about your other points.

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