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America’s Open Wound

edwardsnowden.substack.com

131–140 of 349 posts

Re: America’s Open Wound

#131
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a clear case of the "ad hominem" fallacy. You are saying his argument is wrong because of who he is. Just because he is doing something odd (holed up in Russia) doesn't mean he is wrong.

It's not so clear, in that this fallacy seems to be more accurately what's happening https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Yes, that is more concise.

FTA "This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack."

Re: America’s Open Wound

#133
post #118
post #107

We say: Hey, the police are killing us, could you please stop that. No, we need to be tough on crime. It's just too bad that some people die, but I need to feel secure. We say: Hey, the police are still killing us, could you please stop that. It looks like we need to reboot the justice system. No, we need to be tough on crime. Why do you want the crime rate to go up? We say: Hey, the police are still killing us, we n…

The solution isn't "throw more police at crime". It's multi-faceted. It's not just make work/life more worthwhile either because there are places with relatively high unemployment but also low crime. It's about civics and what society sets as acceptable boundaries and enforcing those boundaries and punishing those that stray too far. Looks at the USA's wild west. It went from rampant violent crime to acceptable socia…

We all have a little policeman in our heads.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#134
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it hypocritical? No. Inconsistent? (This is the difference between an act of commission and an lie of omission) Yes, but potentially only temporary. Would Snowden speak out against Russia if the US dropped charges and let him come home? Who can say?

> if the US dropped charges Well, I guess he's just trapped by the practical problems created by his peculiar combination of personal morality and cowardice. If you claim whistle-blowing is justified by the exposed crimes and then run, whoever owns wherever you end up now owns you. If they happen to be worse... eh, you made your choice, now live with it. He made his choice.

I think Snowden is a victim of (naive?) idealism. Idealism often has very short term focus and isn't very strategic. This led him into the trap of realpolitik where the notion of purity isn't a concern. So he saw the US engaging in bad things, in illegal activity --without taking into account how the rest of the world works and how much worse things outside can be. Sometimes whistleblowing can bring change for the good, but it's not a guarantee --in this case, "the powers that be" have too much vested in this organ and will seek to minimize this inconvenient problem he represents.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#135
post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

> But boy am I happy (not to mention proud) to be an American.

So said every citizen of all domineering empires in the history of the world before they came crashing down.

Said another way: the best ever time to live in a society is during the early years/decades of the decadence/decline of a large empire.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#136
post #133
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution isn't "throw more police at crime". It's multi-faceted. It's not just make work/life more worthwhile either because there are places with relatively high unemployment but also low crime. It's about civics and what society sets as acceptable boundaries and enforcing those boundaries and punishing those that stray too far. Looks at the USA's wild west. It went from rampant violent crime to acceptable socia…

We all have a little policeman in our heads.

Where 'policeman' is a metaphor for justice and predictability. That in and of itself is not a bad thing to want.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#137

I think I was already aware of most of the facts presented, but I'm not sure I know what argument is being made? That the CIA has not enough oversight? This is like a standard plot element in Hollywood movies and comic books, so that seems a little obvious. That the President of the United States shouldn't mention it if he learns someone is plotting a coup or terrorism in his country because that's hypocrisy? Legacy…

The most concerning thing for me is how the CIA and other branches of our intelligence agencies avoid oversight by funneling work through foundations like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democra... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Institute and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Republican_Insti... etc.

If we have no accountability for our intel agencies then what do we really have?

Re: America’s Open Wound

#138
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the amount of hate for Snowden and Assange is dismaying. These men sacrificed their lives to expose the crimes of one of - if not the most -powerful organizations on Earth. And people nitpick that they’re not criticizing the other most powerful entities too. Basically they’re criticizing them for not committing suicide in the name of a people which were impotent of unwilling to do anything with the revelations p…

>I’d be surprised to hear that these people even contradict their boss Has Snowden talked about Putin's war on Ukraine yet?

Seeing as how he's stuck there with nowhere else to go except prison in the US, and owes what little freedom he has to them, I think it's fairly obvious and smart to not speak ill of your host, especially considering what they're capable of. I'm quite sure he would have a LOT to say about it were he not stuck there. Yes, we know, if it were you you'd be condemning them to their face.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#139

This rings entirely hollow since his patron launched an illegal war in Ukraine.

Both things can be bad simultaneously.

P.S. Consider why you felt obligated to specify "illegal" war. Could the tremendously inhumane war in Ukraine be legal somehow? Would it be OK then? I hope not.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#140
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should he? He’s not Jesus or the world police.

Because he denied it was going to happen and expressed skepticism at Western intel reports about the invasion. Then he was silent after the invasion.

A wiser choice under his circumstances. He knows the political climate in Russia.
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