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Ask HN: It's always the people isn't it?

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Re: Ask HN: It's always the people isn't it?

#61

Post by molotovh »

edent wrote: post #23

HR always say "People don't leave jobs; they leave managers." That is, in my opinion, a cop out. I've worked for brilliant managers in great teams - and left because the business wasn't able to support my growth. Or because the company was ethically dodgy. Or because they just couldn't pay enough. And, yeah, sometimes I've left because of a bad boss or grim team members - but that's been a rarity. But, at the end of…

That quip doesn't necessarily mean your direct manager, though. If the company doesn't support employee growth, or is ethically dodgy, those are management decisions.

Anecdotal, but I've definitely had a situation where my team and direct manager were fantastic for two years until the director (my manager's manager) got replaced. The new direcror had a big meeting with all the managers re: "things are going to change around here!" Within a week, there was a palpable change in the office atmosphere and everything started going downhill as the managers were forced to implement policies that I know for a fact they had fought against. It wasn't my manager that was bad; but he was put in a bad position by his own management who clearly had no interest in hearing from the plebs. So yeah ... I did leave because of a bad manager; it just wasn't my direct manager.

Re: Ask HN: It's always the people isn't it?

#62

Post by chiefalchemist »

edent wrote: post #54
chiefalchemist wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's said because your immediate manager is whom is responsible for you, your growth, your performance, clearly a path for you, etc. Chances are good they participated in the decision to hire you. That is, pretty much everything you mentioned - in the context of a team / company - traces back to your manager (directly or indirectly). Perhaps some of your managers weren't as completely good as you think? Tha…

Nah. When a company says "The training budget this year is zero" - it doesn't matter how good my immediate manager is. They can't fix that for me. That's not me leaving a manager. That's the job abandoning me.

Not so. Your manage could say, "I don't have hard dollars for you, but I can free up some of your time if you're willing to do some self-training." Or, "I'm told the training budget is zero. What else can I / we do to work on your skills and/or career?"

But a manager that simply says, "No budget. Oh well. Sucks being you." IS failing to fulfill the role of an average manager.

Re: Ask HN: It's always the people isn't it?

#63

Post by ThePadawan »

smcl wrote: post #38
jart wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP is asking for life advice anonymously. There's no safer environment for them to hear the sorts of things people think but wouldn't otherwise say.

I think my comment allowed for that hard truth to be confronted while also offering an alternative explanation (that it is possible to be unlucky a few jobs in a row with some colleagues who just make life difficult)

I have heard your comment before, in this joke:

If you walk into a room and it smells like dog shit, a dog probably shit in that room.

If you walk into a second room and it still smells like dog shit, there might have been a dog that shit into both those rooms.

If you walk into a third room and it still smells like dog shit, check the bottom of your shoe.

In that (shitty) metaphor, it might just be that your office building (~i.e. the software industry) is next to a sewage plant (i.e. its problems), regardless of the state of your shoes.

Re: Ask HN: It's always the people isn't it?

#67

Post by barrysteve »

edent wrote: post #53
barrysteve wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean, a job can be meaningless? Nihilist by day, family man by night? Come on.

Sometimes a job is just a job. It puts bread on the table. Nothing more. Most people aren't working on something they care about.

You and badpun who replied below, equate meaning with care/not caring. Care or don't that's fine. It is meaning though. You've already committed to a particular meaning and are just making a point about what you'll give up to have less of it.

I won't touch that with a ten foot pole though. You devour the aim, the target and split your life in two, 8hrs at work, 8hrs asleep, when are you living?

Re: Ask HN: It's always the people isn't it?

#68

Post by smcl »

ThePadawan wrote: post #63
smcl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my comment allowed for that hard truth to be confronted while also offering an alternative explanation (that it is possible to be unlucky a few jobs in a row with some colleagues who just make life difficult)

I have heard your comment before, in this joke: If you walk into a room and it smells like dog shit, a dog probably shit in that room. If you walk into a second room and it still smells like dog shit, there might have been a dog that shit into both those rooms. If you walk into a third room and it still smells like dog shit, check the bottom of your shoe. In that (shitty) metaphor, it might just be that your office b…

Ha nice, until the last line I was thinking "nooo, you missed part of my original comment!" :D

Re: Ask HN: It's always the people isn't it?

#70

Post by mbrodersen »

danparsonson wrote: post #33

Without knowing anything about your specific situation, if you regularly find that you have bad relationships with your colleagues, then perhaps there is an opportunity for you to make a change somewhere in your own life? In my personal experience I haven't had too many problems with coworkers and on the rare occasion that I did, with hindsight I was at least partly responsible for the difficulties I encountered and…

I have worked for a company where I didn't get along with 95% of the people. And yet I worked fine with 99% of people in every other company I have ever worked for. So sometimes it actually isn't you that's the problem. Sometimes your personality simply doesn't fit the company culture.

By the way the company I didn't get along with was the worst performing one. They reported $ millions in losses every year and was constantly being reorganized and/or sold to some other company. One of those "let's spend 80% of our time in meetings" kind of places. I am so happy I don't work there anymore.

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