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America’s Open Wound

edwardsnowden.substack.com

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Re: America’s Open Wound

#61

Post by [deleted] »

canjobear wrote: post #31
hunglee2 wrote: post #3

it is not clear what could be done should an intelligence agency turn rogue, and become operationally independent from the government. It's basically a non-democratic power centre which - because it is not subject to elections - will always outlast any politician, and because of the nature of the work, has vast powers of direct and indirect influence. Good job that this is not the case in the US

Is CIA rogue? Many of the morally upsetting acts documented here (killing an 8 year old girl, spying on the American people) seem to have been ordered by officials in the elected government.

[deleted]

Re: America’s Open Wound

#62

Post by chrisco255 »

dvt wrote: post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

After seeing the ringer that Assange has been put through in spite of not being an American citizen at all, I can only imagine what they would put Snowden through. He would not get a fair trial. Everything that was brought to light would have been buried and forgotten.

None of the Epstein co-conspirators have gone to jail, many of which we know are powerful billionaires, royalty, and celebrities. We have actual evidence of the current president taking bribes while VP (vis-a-vis the Hunter Biden laptop), but there is not even a trace of controversy in the "news" about it.

But we know Snowden would go to jail and his life made a living hell were he not in one of the few countries with true independence from the claws of the American empire. I know why Russia gave him shelter, because the revelations make the U.S. look bad. But I'll be damned if we don't deserve to look bad for this insane, egregious, abuse of human rights that is completely averse to our legal and foundational principles.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#63

Post by qaq »

d23 wrote: post #17

It's a shame he addresses none of the points of the speech he premises the article on. He could be an important voice right now speaking out against tyranny and fascism.

And where would he move ?

Re: America’s Open Wound

#64

Post by rascul »

rendall wrote: post #2

Did any American read this without alarm? If so, why not?

The actions of intelligence agencies have long ago stopped surprising me. It's hard to be more alarmed than I already am and still live my life.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#65

Post by smcl »

zug_zug wrote: post #28
rendall wrote: post #2

Did any American read this without alarm? If so, why not?

Well I think this article does a good job of saying CIA has done some crazy stuff. But then it goes from there to -> so let's get rid of it, which to me seems like potentially a much scarier proposition. It's not clear to me exactly how real the threat of foreign countries trying to tamper with our elections is, but if this is what the CIA does, I think it's probably naive to think no other nation would try things li…

> 8-year-old girls shouldn't be assassinated, but

I don't think that sentence needed a "but" part

Re: America’s Open Wound

#66

Post by zug_zug »

jobs_throwaway wrote: post #32
zug_zug wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I think this article does a good job of saying CIA has done some crazy stuff. But then it goes from there to -> so let's get rid of it, which to me seems like potentially a much scarier proposition. It's not clear to me exactly how real the threat of foreign countries trying to tamper with our elections is, but if this is what the CIA does, I think it's probably naive to think no other nation would try things li…

>8-year-old girls shouldn't be assassinated, but in the scope of things, that's not a reason to get rid of an entire agency. Really? That seems exactly like the kind of thing that should get an agency canned, especially because its not an aberration. In fact, I'd say virtually any other agency that did so would be canned in short order. Why doesn't the CIA have to play by the same rules as everyone else? Especially w…

???

Killing is one of the CIA's sanctioned duties, so it's a bit different to compare the CIA killing a child to the EPA killing a child.

But nonetheless, no, we wouldn't shut down the whole EPA, fire everybody, delete all the databases, and cancel worrying about pollution if the EPA killed a child.

I know this is an emotional topic, but imo overreacting proposals actually make less progress toward a concrete improvement than practical ideas.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#67

Post by marcusverus »

dvt wrote: post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

Snowden is bad because he's... in a bad country? Drivel!

That the US is better than the USSR is hardly a laurel worth resting on. The US has, from before it even existed, always been about the pursuit of better government--of a more perfect union.

There can be no improvement without criticism.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#68

Post by lancesells »

roenxi wrote: post #13

I have to ask, because I know that Biden was said to give a speech with bad optics but I never looked it up seriously - is that photo doctored?^W^W^W I just googled it myself. Whoever is doing his PR needs to be sacked for leaving him open to a photo like that.

I can't tell if the people responsible were clueless or it was purposeful. With the way information is spread and manipulated optics should be as important as any words. It's very odd...

Re: America’s Open Wound

#69

Post by zmgsabst »

lancesells wrote: post #68
roenxi wrote: post #13

I have to ask, because I know that Biden was said to give a speech with bad optics but I never looked it up seriously - is that photo doctored?^W^W^W I just googled it myself. Whoever is doing his PR needs to be sacked for leaving him open to a photo like that.

I can't tell if the people responsible were clueless or it was purposeful. With the way information is spread and manipulated optics should be as important as any words. It's very odd...

Intentional:

- all US feeds of the speech were the angry red, except CNN who digitally altered it to pink

- international feeds had a wider angle that included blue

Re: America’s Open Wound

#70

Post by anoonmoose »

Ekaros wrote: post #39
anoonmoose wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant the one with the unprecedented violent riots in the Capitol that resulted in some folks dying. Could be wrong.

Quoted post unavailable.

I mean, what could I possibly say that would convince you that neither is the case? Probably nothing. I saw what I saw.
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