America’s Open Wound • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s Open Wound

#51

Post by sbf501 » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

dvt wrote: post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

This is a clear case of the "ad hominem" fallacy.

You are saying his argument is wrong because of who he is.

Just because he is doing something odd (holed up in Russia) doesn't mean he is wrong.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#52

Post by socialismisok » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

rendall wrote: post #2

Did any American read this without alarm? If so, why not?

I think I read it with a sense of alarm fatigue, if that makes sense. The government has been doing extrajudicial killings of leftist leaders internationally and internally for a long time, so in socialist circles you tend to hear these stories regularly.

Folks like Fred Hampton (and COINTELPRO generally), and Martin Luther King, Jr, (who the FBI wiretapped and then sent a letter demanding he commit suicide).

And international cases like Operation PB Fortune, which overthrew democracy at the behest of fruit companies.

And we can reach further back to cases like the Haymarket Affair, Blair Mountain, the internment of us citizens into concentration camps during WW2, etc.

So... Am I alarmed? Yes, but have I been alarmed for a long time? Also yes.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#53

Post by Sohcahtoa82 » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #39

anoonmoose wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant the one with the unprecedented violent riots in the Capitol that resulted in some folks dying. Could be wrong.

Quoted post unavailable.

...

Are you seriously implying that the Jan6 riot didn't happen?

Despite all the video proof of it?

I'm starting to think "Trump Derangement Syndrome" actually is a thing, but it's not his detractors that have it, it's his supporters.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#54

Post by zmgsabst » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #13

I have to ask, because I know that Biden was said to give a speech with bad optics but I never looked it up seriously - is that photo doctored?^W^W^W I just googled it myself. Whoever is doing his PR needs to be sacked for leaving him open to a photo like that.

That wasn’t just a photo — and it was intentional.

US markets had the red backdrop dictator scene, while international markets had a blue-and-red shot.

The Biden PR team intentionally broadcast a dictator speech, while broadcasting a different look internationally — an act meant to provoke and intimidate political rivals.

Edit:

I’m not sure your point?

The speech following that brief crowd segment is the red with marines behind him — at a point where the light was on, rather than the one featured in the photo.

I think there’s a reason you deep linked rather than show the beginning: the start is exactly the dark red set shown in the photo.

People should watch from the start —

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JemWkV2Vcic

You’re the only one here being a “joker”.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#55

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #9

hunglee2 wrote: post #3

it is not clear what could be done should an intelligence agency turn rogue, and become operationally independent from the government. It's basically a non-democratic power centre which - because it is not subject to elections - will always outlast any politician, and because of the nature of the work, has vast powers of direct and indirect influence. Good job that this is not the case in the US

It's worse, because intelligence agencies surveil politicians, and can manipulate both them directly and the elections that get them their jobs. It's inevitable that the government will be controlled by the person at the highest levels of surveillance (the unsurveilled one) in a world of complete surveillance. Surveillance gets you power, and more power gives you better ability to exploit and increase surveillance. S…

[deleted]

Re: America’s Open Wound

#56

Post by tarakat » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

dvt wrote: post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

> A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia.

So you have no problem with the substance of the article, only with the author's place of residence?

The article itself references several instances of the CIA toppling governments and starting wars - those are not invalidated because Russia also did similar or and worse things. Plenty of people in the Middle East and Central America could justifiably feel the same about the CIA as you do about Russia.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#57

Post by zmgsabst » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

CommieBobDole wrote: post #33

roenxi wrote: post #13

I have to ask, because I know that Biden was said to give a speech with bad optics but I never looked it up seriously - is that photo doctored?^W^W^W I just googled it myself. Whoever is doing his PR needs to be sacked for leaving him open to a photo like that.

The building was lit up in red, white and blue, and whoever took/published the photo either chose their angle or cropped it for dramatic effect. But yeah, I assume there's someone whose job is to avoid things like this who wasn't doing their job very well. https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-joe-biden-picture...

No — the US feeds of the speech all had the tight red framing, while international ones did not. That photo is the same framing as his speech broadcast on US networks.

Such a market split indicates the framing was intentionally authoritarian and meant to provoke/intimidate political rivals.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#58

Post by jscipione » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #13

I have to ask, because I know that Biden was said to give a speech with bad optics but I never looked it up seriously - is that photo doctored?^W^W^W I just googled it myself. Whoever is doing his PR needs to be sacked for leaving him open to a photo like that.

No post body was provided.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#59

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

jwond wrote: post #50

dvt wrote: post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

> A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. Seeing how Julian Assange has been treated I think Snowden is acting wisely and I’m not going to hold it against him.

[deleted]

Re: America’s Open Wound

#60

Post by mc32 » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

dvt wrote: post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

It _is_ hypocritical of him, of course, but despite the hypocrisy he does have lessons for us and his hypocrisy does not negate the substance of the lessons.

He's also between a rock and a hard pace. So I don't blame him too much. What I will say, is that if you choose to be a whistleblower, as honorable and moral that can be, you should be aware of and assume the consequences. That's the deal. It's not nice and the world should be a better place, but it isn't and that's the way it works.

That said, he, and Truman are right in that bureaucracy transforms and metastasizes and becomes something other than its original intent and inertia takes over and becomes what some deride as "the deep state" which has been a concern at least since Jefferson.

Maybe we should have hard sunsets on most ACTs of congress and if the function is important enough they can raise a new organization, but not one simply taking over, but one growing anew with new management, personnel and regulation.