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Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

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Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#231

Post by kamaal »

kurupt213 wrote: post #227
davidguetta wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Karpov said he played badly in the Sinquefield game. Personally I think Hans didn't cheat in this game ...... but: my best theory is that Carlsen is afraid to play against people who HAVE cheated once, because there mere thought that he COULD be cheating right now is enough to derail him from clear thinking. I think this because it's exactly what he declared in an interview ABOUT cheating on 2021. So basically h…

So why even begin the match? The story would hold a lot more water if he boycotts from the outset

Just a guess may be Carlsen set the whole thing up. Like make a move and see if the opponent makes a move that could only be recommended by a chess engine. Do it in your preparation time and see this.

Like in your preparation you make an opening move and see what move the engine makes in response. Now do this in your live game and see if the opponent made the very same move. If they do, this confirms cheating. In this case may be that's the first he would do given he already suspects cheating?

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#232

Post by peteradio »

H8crilA wrote: post #103
wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

Ya did Carlsen even read him his rights before he booked him danno?

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#233

Post by Tenoke »

radiator wrote: post #220
tibbar wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a strong point in Hans's favor, and Regan is very reputable, but he's also going against the Chess.com team (and Hans himself!) in claiming that he finds no evidence of Hans cheating *online* either.

On the contrary, I don't find it significant at all. I had not even heard of Dr. Regan. He seems to have achieved the IM Title decades ago, today he is probably simply a weak player. The best expert on opining whether Niemann has been cheating or not is the player who understands the game of chess more deeply than anyone else. He understands it from the human point of view (for example: which variations can a player…

In a similar way that the best chess engine developer is not the best chess player there's little reason to think that the best person to detect chess engine use is the best player.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#234

Post by EGreg »

kamaal wrote: post #231
kurupt213 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why even begin the match? The story would hold a lot more water if he boycotts from the outset

Just a guess may be Carlsen set the whole thing up. Like make a move and see if the opponent makes a move that could only be recommended by a chess engine. Do it in your preparation time and see this. Like in your preparation you make an opening move and see what move the engine makes in response. Now do this in your live game and see if the opponent made the very same move. If they do, this confirms cheating. In thi…

One opening move can’t possibly confirm cheating since the opening moves played by the best chess engines are also the same moves played by the vast majority of human players.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#235

Post by Ma8ee »

luc4sdreyer wrote: post #79
bambax wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy from "Stuff Made Here" builds all sorts of sports machines: a gun-powered golf club, a basketball hoop that's impossible to miss, etc. I think he would be able to make a tennis playing machine that aces every single service shot (if he's not working on that already! ;-)

A very easy way to do it would just be to serve the ball at > 400km/h. It's unlikely that a human could accurately return a ball at that speed more than 50% of the time.

I don’t know the rules of tennis well enough, but would it be enough to just have an unreturnable serve to win, even if you can’t return anything yourself?

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#236

Post by Ma8ee »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #60
Ma8ee wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still quite a bit of sports where machines can’t compete, like tennis or soccer.

Only if you consider that the machine should act like a human player. We can definitely build machines that beat humans in both tennis and soccer every single time.

How would that soccer player look? I don’t think we can build a machine that is good at soccer.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#237

Post by TheRealNGenius »

ramraj07 wrote: post #4
tibbar wrote: post #2

For context, Magnus withdrew from a major tournament last month after losing to Hans. He has not made a statement, but it is understood that he suspects Hans of cheating. Hans has admitted to cheating online, though he denies cheating in person. As more evidence comes out, it seems that Hans has cheated a lot more than he admitted, and potentially over the board as well (for example, this analysis [1] shows that he's…

As someone who’s never been able to appreciate or follow sports where a machine can be an order of magnitude better than a human, I would genuinely like to understand why people are enamored about such sports. In the end it seems like brilliant minds lost in math that’s not even novel anymore.. again everyone should do what they please, but this is just an academic question from someone unable to appreciate such skil…

No post body was provided.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#238

Post by linkdd »

Nokinside wrote: post #125
linkdd wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good Yeah, justice! If you steal something once in your life, straight to jail, for good. If you have a speeding ticket, no more driver license for the rest of your life. After all, people don't change, any mistake in life should be fatal and destroy your entire future.

In some areas of life the rule is more strict. Even a lowlife should be allowed to seek jobs etc. But lowlife should not be allowed in professional chess, and professional chess is not place for second changes.

> lowlife

Get down from your ivory tower...

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#239

Post by Consultant32452 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #96
tibbar wrote: post #2

For context, Magnus withdrew from a major tournament last month after losing to Hans. He has not made a statement, but it is understood that he suspects Hans of cheating. Hans has admitted to cheating online, though he denies cheating in person. As more evidence comes out, it seems that Hans has cheated a lot more than he admitted, and potentially over the board as well (for example, this analysis [1] shows that he's…

> As more evidence comes out, it seems that Hans has cheated a lot more than he admitted, and potentially over the board as well (for example, this analysis [1] shows that he's playing at superhuman levels in some games.) This is being overstated. There's not any hard evidence suggesting he's been cheating over the board, and for such a potentially career-ruining allegation you'd want some pretty strong evidence.

What does the expression "over the board" mean?

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#240

Post by radiator »

Tenoke wrote: post #233
radiator wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, I don't find it significant at all. I had not even heard of Dr. Regan. He seems to have achieved the IM Title decades ago, today he is probably simply a weak player. The best expert on opining whether Niemann has been cheating or not is the player who understands the game of chess more deeply than anyone else. He understands it from the human point of view (for example: which variations can a player…

In a similar way that the best chess engine developer is not the best chess player there's little reason to think that the best person to detect chess engine use is the best player.

Indeed there is every reason. The hardest part is to understand the game of chess. As i wrote, it includes having the entire tree of variations for every position in your mind while investigating. It is absolutely not a matter of simply comparing one-dimensional engine evaluations.
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